Not exactly. The admiral and the DEVGRU guys should have refused to carry out the double tap. It’s pretty remarkable that this scenario is the example given in the manual.
But Hegseth and Trump are absolutely dodging their own accountability by trying to say they didn’t order the strike.
Trump and Hegseth won’t back anyone but themselves ! The Navy Admiral can kiss his career goodbye. And why he didn’t stand his ground we’ll probably never know
Cathy, they would be thrown under the bus no matter what because they carried out illegal orders, just as they had learned when they joined the service. Trump/Hegseth may have sent the order, but they could have boarded the boats and checked out the cargo, then impounded the cargo if it were drugs and arrested the crew. That's what quality sailors would have done.
Trumper & Hegseth are petty small cowards who want to play toughman which is why Trumper ALWAYS posts pics of himself fit/trim being a badass….as he is a frail obese fatass
Old white fucker who just is filled with pure HATE…when Epstein says Trump is pure “evil” what’s that tell all the American maggots??? The Actions of this military makes me sick….bit not as sick of what Trumper says & DOES everyday….WE need the fuck out of this situation at any cost…
Lynne, and he pardoned another guy who was involved in a number of serious crimes, but Trump couldn't even remember having pardoned him and didn't know who he was. I wonder if that pardon can be continued since it was done under false pretenses, and it is unclear who wielded the autopen. Trump is whining about that too, not that he uses it , but that Biden dod which made it not legal.
purpleviking, it is clear the commander of the ship knew what he was being ordered to do was illegal, a war crime (except not at war) or murder and the second shot was definitely murder. He does have some responsibility, but not alone. He clearly did not initiate the attack. I wonder what would have happened if they had just caught the boat, boarded it and found out what it was carrying if anything, besides fish. This insanity and criminal activity is what we get when people vote for criminals for office and an entire political party (Republicans) think whatever their fearful leader does is just fine with themm. I get it that they were threatened, but they are not beholden to a criminal president no matter what Trump or Trump's toddler pool threatened them with.
Yeah, I mean I wouldn’t want to be the one having to resign my commission, or risk being dishonorably discharged and losing my benefits. Trump is essentially blackmailing these leaders who have had long careers.
And I’m convinced Trump stole the 2024 election (check out It’s Up To Us on Substack, and Election Truth Alliance), so it really wasn’t America that voted him in.
That being said, this is where the rubber meets the road. And it is pure effing murder. Not a war crime, as we are not at war — not even close. That’s what the regime has been hoping for, some pretext to spark a conflict. I would be surprised if anyone but perhaps dear leader himself truly believes there are drugs on those boats, and/or they are any sort of threat to us whatsoever.
I can’t believe it’s taken over 80 deaths for us to get here, but I am glad people are paying attention and Congress seems to be waking up. We’ll see if anything comes of it.
Trump is firing all military leaders not loyal to him ... those with some basic ethics. With the good ones fired or resigning, soon the federal government will be filled with nothing but Trump toadies. That, of course, is the goal of Project 2025 anyway.
Judy, that seems to me to be a treasonous act, working to take over our government for the purposes of a cadre of rich white men leaving the rest of America in the dust. That works out to be "enemies within,." with the cadre betraying this nation.
Cheryl, right you are on all accounts! Then, there's Trump's dementia that our media has mostly ignored. I do not believe Trump has a clue what is going on with the "drug" killings beyond that he thinks they make him look cool or strong or something. Hegseth isn't smart enough to order the first strike, so someone put the idea into his tiny brain and he just kept ordering the attacks. I want to know who that guy making the first order is: Miller, Vought, JD Vance? I do wish we could find overwhelming evidence of the cheat that went on in the 2024 election. Many people don't want to believe it so don't. Knowing it for certain will make it hard for people to have faith in our elections and that is scary!
SCOTUS granted trump immunity for official acts. Because his accomplices don’t have the same protection, the White House will have to pre-print standard pardon forms for all the criminal members of his administration acting on the president’s orders. This will greatly reduce the paperwork required for the massive number of pardons required for all his conspirators.
Joel, well, Trump and his cadre managed it for the 1600 or so insurrectionists of January 6th. There are no depths to which this group of traitors won't go!
A line has definitely been crossed; killing two survivors clinging to the wreckage of their fishing boat was definitely murder.
Lawful procedures under international and maritime law dictate 4 steps: 1. stop the suspected boat 2. Inspect the boat 3. a. If contraband is found, impounded boat, its contents, and jail the crew b. If no drugs are on board, release the vessel and its fishermen.
Neither destruction nor death is required or excusable.
We have a perfectly good Coast Guard who do exactly that, and have been doing it all along. This usurpation by the trumpies is obviously illegal, improper, and stupid.
The so-called manly he-man Hogsbreath is a ghoul, just like his orange turd commander-in-chief; they both should face the full consequences of that illegal act.
I recently read he wants to put statues in the national mall, no doubt of himself. Perhaps that was a “squirrel,” to distract from all his criminality.
You are correct, all of this going on is just a big dog and pony show for his supporters who are lapping this up. Until congress and courts do anything, this will keep going on.
O’bama, Clinton and the top commanders watching every second of Seal Team 6 as they caught Bin Laden. Could anybody imagine that the head of the military had walked away while the 2 living sounds clinging for life were murdered? Not a chance.
Hegseth literally said he left before those 2 were killed as he had another meeting to attend and our commander in chief used the EXACT words he use in his first term when he said “Putin said he didn’t do it and I believe him.” The EXACT words. Congress must act now or it will be one group of us after another that gets put into deportation camps, never to be seen again.
Now Trump is illegally planning on invading Venezuela to get his hands on oil resources for his billionaire buddies. The 'peace plan' with Russia was more Trump Organization proposals to give Ukraine to Putin and then split the spoils of that country as well. Is this who we are now? A nation that has no respect for democracy or the sovereignty of other countries? How do Trumps moves make us any different than Russia on the world stage?
YES that is WHO Trump is and & WHAT fucking America IS…BUT the beauty is that a lawyer in maybe Ohio with Human Rights is representing one of the murdered boaters and the guy IS COLUMBIAN…hope they get billions which is billions of taxpayer $$ trump can’t pocket ….what kills me is the PARDON of Hernandez the X-President who our US ATTORNEY OFFICE NEW YORK CONVICTED AFTER YEARS
OF WORK AND HE WAS SENTENCED TO 45 years imprisonment …Trump the fucking criminal PARDONED HIS ASS
taken in context with Mark Kelly's recent comments on a soldier's responsibilty to NOT FOLLOW illegal orders. This is a perfect example of what he was trying to communicate to the military.
It is very sad that the Trump administration is putting our military in this very difficult position
When shit hits the fan, Trump's response has been to deny knowing about it. It's his equivalent of, "I didn't do it, Mom," while pointing to someone else to take the blame. He'll probably try to blame this on Biden and Obama, too.
Dilbert and the rest of them are the 5 year old snotnoses, saying "I do not have my hand in that cookie jar! But if I did have my hand in that cookie jar, it's because it's MY cookie jar and you can't have any!"
Please, please, hold these horrid murderers accountable. They don't even have proof that these people were breaking any law. How long do we have to put up with the Trump regime doing such awful things to people.
Oh, so it was the *Pentagon*’s Law of War manual! He hasn’t outlawed or renamed the Pentagon (that I know of), so the Law of War and definition of war crimes stands.
Typical deny responsibility when they know that they did wrong? A whole generation of kids will be looking at this. I hope they find better role models. How does one explain to this to their kids?
We can all bitch and say this was a war crime, and it was, especially if there is no war declared, but NOTHING will be done to condemn these weak, pitiful, incompetent murderers unless Congress steps up to the plate. Don't see that being done. Six Dems don't make it. They only get bomb threats.
Trump and Hegseth can play dumb all they want but Americans are not as stupid as Trump thinks!! These killings were not done according to our military codes!!
77 million voters are moron enough to stand there after experiencing the first 4 years of this boob's bullshit and say "Yeah, I want some more of that."
A friend of mine pointed out yesterday that Trump voters are the ones you didn't like back in school, all grown down.
Please stop calling this a war crime. The USA is not at war with Venezuela. In addition there is no proof that these small boats contain drugs or are manned by narco terrorists. It is extra- judicial murder and calling it anything else adds an undeserved layer of legitimacy
He just pardoned a major drug trafficker! Do you really think he cares about drug trafficking? Distraction don't you think? We still haven't seen the Epstein files, have we?
I totally agree! But every reporter no matter who they work for is referring to these murders that way. There have been instances where a military member has had a psychotic break and murdered fellow military members or civilians. Those are not considered war crimes either.
Trump has told Military Officers to view every one of those boats as "enemy warships" and has said they are "narco terrorists" that we are at war with. That sounds like we're at war, and therefore a war crime!
I think there's a difference between sounds like and actually is in this case. Just because Trump says it, doesn't make it so. Unless he's a Dictator. …….
You're right!! I misread your comment. By saying it's a war it legitimizes the murder that's occuring with these boats. He cannot unilaterally declare war just so he can justify these killings. There is no question that he is a dictator wannabe at the moment, and is attempting to remove all barriers preventing him from becoming that.
Corrupt administration to acknowledge that this sequence of war crimes to be not only investigated but also to hold those accountable for the muder of 80 human beings.
So they are basically throwing the captain or admiral of the naval boat under the bus.
Not exactly. The admiral and the DEVGRU guys should have refused to carry out the double tap. It’s pretty remarkable that this scenario is the example given in the manual.
But Hegseth and Trump are absolutely dodging their own accountability by trying to say they didn’t order the strike.
You're right, the commander of the naval ship is probably hoping Trump and Hegseth will back him up until the ahit hits the fan. If it actually does.
( shit hits the fan )
saralane5367.substack.com/p/unreal
Trump and Hegseth won’t back anyone but themselves ! The Navy Admiral can kiss his career goodbye. And why he didn’t stand his ground we’ll probably never know
It is inexplicable that Special Ops guys didnt know this was illegal— it’s reportedly the exact example in the Book
That's the only thing trump is good at; taking no responsibility for anything!
Lynne, oh wait! He is also a pretty good liar, a hypocrite, and a cheat. I guess he deserves some recognition for those horrible "talents too."
Ruth, I do not think he is a very good liar. He, definitely, cheats on everything. Even his high school SATs!
They chose this Admiral ..so he will be fine.
What in the world makes you think that?
I hope the admiral, and others in military commands, understand that they will be thrown under the bus for following this administration’s orders.
Cathy, they would be thrown under the bus no matter what because they carried out illegal orders, just as they had learned when they joined the service. Trump/Hegseth may have sent the order, but they could have boarded the boats and checked out the cargo, then impounded the cargo if it were drugs and arrested the crew. That's what quality sailors would have done.
Except
Trumper & Hegseth are petty small cowards who want to play toughman which is why Trumper ALWAYS posts pics of himself fit/trim being a badass….as he is a frail obese fatass
Old white fucker who just is filled with pure HATE…when Epstein says Trump is pure “evil” what’s that tell all the American maggots??? The Actions of this military makes me sick….bit not as sick of what Trumper says & DOES everyday….WE need the fuck out of this situation at any cost…
That is what quality sailors would have done. Has anyone bothered to actually check what is supposedly in these dinghy’s?
That would require actual thinking, so no…
And yet, trump pardons ex-president of Honduras, who was sentenced to 45 yrs. For drug smuggling in the US!
Trump is getting something out of it, of that we can be sure.
I believe it's oil.
Seems logical to me-NOT!!
Lynne, and he pardoned another guy who was involved in a number of serious crimes, but Trump couldn't even remember having pardoned him and didn't know who he was. I wonder if that pardon can be continued since it was done under false pretenses, and it is unclear who wielded the autopen. Trump is whining about that too, not that he uses it , but that Biden dod which made it not legal.
Everything he does is for his own selfishness!
Exactly.
Hope they get court articles!
It’s not easy to refuse orders, but it seems at least one admiral did (Adm. Holsey retired not long after this strike)
purpleviking, it is clear the commander of the ship knew what he was being ordered to do was illegal, a war crime (except not at war) or murder and the second shot was definitely murder. He does have some responsibility, but not alone. He clearly did not initiate the attack. I wonder what would have happened if they had just caught the boat, boarded it and found out what it was carrying if anything, besides fish. This insanity and criminal activity is what we get when people vote for criminals for office and an entire political party (Republicans) think whatever their fearful leader does is just fine with themm. I get it that they were threatened, but they are not beholden to a criminal president no matter what Trump or Trump's toddler pool threatened them with.
Yeah, I mean I wouldn’t want to be the one having to resign my commission, or risk being dishonorably discharged and losing my benefits. Trump is essentially blackmailing these leaders who have had long careers.
And I’m convinced Trump stole the 2024 election (check out It’s Up To Us on Substack, and Election Truth Alliance), so it really wasn’t America that voted him in.
That being said, this is where the rubber meets the road. And it is pure effing murder. Not a war crime, as we are not at war — not even close. That’s what the regime has been hoping for, some pretext to spark a conflict. I would be surprised if anyone but perhaps dear leader himself truly believes there are drugs on those boats, and/or they are any sort of threat to us whatsoever.
I can’t believe it’s taken over 80 deaths for us to get here, but I am glad people are paying attention and Congress seems to be waking up. We’ll see if anything comes of it.
Trump is firing all military leaders not loyal to him ... those with some basic ethics. With the good ones fired or resigning, soon the federal government will be filled with nothing but Trump toadies. That, of course, is the goal of Project 2025 anyway.
The 2025 Coup is moving along as planned.
Judy, that seems to me to be a treasonous act, working to take over our government for the purposes of a cadre of rich white men leaving the rest of America in the dust. That works out to be "enemies within,." with the cadre betraying this nation.
😢
Cheryl, right you are on all accounts! Then, there's Trump's dementia that our media has mostly ignored. I do not believe Trump has a clue what is going on with the "drug" killings beyond that he thinks they make him look cool or strong or something. Hegseth isn't smart enough to order the first strike, so someone put the idea into his tiny brain and he just kept ordering the attacks. I want to know who that guy making the first order is: Miller, Vought, JD Vance? I do wish we could find overwhelming evidence of the cheat that went on in the 2024 election. Many people don't want to believe it so don't. Knowing it for certain will make it hard for people to have faith in our elections and that is scary!
I think you just nailed it—and it may be all three.
80 that we know about, of course.
You are just now realizing he was NOT voted into office? You need to catch up girl!😲
A Mad King who revels in CRUELTY. This is America now?
Certainly looks that way.
Good post!
Exactly.
Yep just watch
If you look at that admiral's war record as a SEAL, it couldn't happen to a more deserving guy.
SCOTUS granted trump immunity for official acts. Because his accomplices don’t have the same protection, the White House will have to pre-print standard pardon forms for all the criminal members of his administration acting on the president’s orders. This will greatly reduce the paperwork required for the massive number of pardons required for all his conspirators.
Joel, well, Trump and his cadre managed it for the 1600 or so insurrectionists of January 6th. There are no depths to which this group of traitors won't go!
Certainly trying to.
A line has definitely been crossed; killing two survivors clinging to the wreckage of their fishing boat was definitely murder.
Lawful procedures under international and maritime law dictate 4 steps: 1. stop the suspected boat 2. Inspect the boat 3. a. If contraband is found, impounded boat, its contents, and jail the crew b. If no drugs are on board, release the vessel and its fishermen.
Neither destruction nor death is required or excusable.
We have a perfectly good Coast Guard who do exactly that, and have been doing it all along. This usurpation by the trumpies is obviously illegal, improper, and stupid.
We have an EXCELLENT Coast Guard.
Oh but Hegseth wants to prove how tough and manly he is.
The so-called manly he-man Hogsbreath is a ghoul, just like his orange turd commander-in-chief; they both should face the full consequences of that illegal act.
I like men who have brawn AND brains. Not many of those in Trump’s administration.
No president has been asked or required to take a cognitive test, because it hasn’t been necessary before.
Yet, Trump doesn’t know what part of body was examined by an MRI.
Nobel Peace Prize is Trump’s only goal — oh except for the gilded ballroom.
Which companies have bent the knee to build a ballroom larger than the White House?
I recently read he wants to put statues in the national mall, no doubt of himself. Perhaps that was a “squirrel,” to distract from all his criminality.
And acquisition of Greenland and Canada.
Laws? Long gone.
You are correct, all of this going on is just a big dog and pony show for his supporters who are lapping this up. Until congress and courts do anything, this will keep going on.
Remember watching
O’bama, Clinton and the top commanders watching every second of Seal Team 6 as they caught Bin Laden. Could anybody imagine that the head of the military had walked away while the 2 living sounds clinging for life were murdered? Not a chance.
Hegseth literally said he left before those 2 were killed as he had another meeting to attend and our commander in chief used the EXACT words he use in his first term when he said “Putin said he didn’t do it and I believe him.” The EXACT words. Congress must act now or it will be one group of us after another that gets put into deportation camps, never to be seen again.
Yes!! I sooo remember that.
Yes I believe that give the fucker time …which incidentally is what Hitlerwas given to slaughter millions till he was killed or used suicide….
Time to SLAUGHTER millions…..
"caught Bin Laden"... really ?
Now Trump is illegally planning on invading Venezuela to get his hands on oil resources for his billionaire buddies. The 'peace plan' with Russia was more Trump Organization proposals to give Ukraine to Putin and then split the spoils of that country as well. Is this who we are now? A nation that has no respect for democracy or the sovereignty of other countries? How do Trumps moves make us any different than Russia on the world stage?
YES that is WHO Trump is and & WHAT fucking America IS…BUT the beauty is that a lawyer in maybe Ohio with Human Rights is representing one of the murdered boaters and the guy IS COLUMBIAN…hope they get billions which is billions of taxpayer $$ trump can’t pocket ….what kills me is the PARDON of Hernandez the X-President who our US ATTORNEY OFFICE NEW YORK CONVICTED AFTER YEARS
OF WORK AND HE WAS SENTENCED TO 45 years imprisonment …Trump the fucking criminal PARDONED HIS ASS
Apparently, this IS who we are now. It is not a pretty sight, either.
taken in context with Mark Kelly's recent comments on a soldier's responsibilty to NOT FOLLOW illegal orders. This is a perfect example of what he was trying to communicate to the military.
It is very sad that the Trump administration is putting our military in this very difficult position
What hasn’t he ruined?
Trump and Hegseth are ridiculously embarrassing. The history books are not going to be kind to these despicable human beings.
The history books cannot help those murdered men and their families.
Couldn’t agree more. It’s HORRIBLE.
This despicable gang will make sure there are no honest History books…period.
When shit hits the fan, Trump's response has been to deny knowing about it. It's his equivalent of, "I didn't do it, Mom," while pointing to someone else to take the blame. He'll probably try to blame this on Biden and Obama, too.
Dilbert and the rest of them are the 5 year old snotnoses, saying "I do not have my hand in that cookie jar! But if I did have my hand in that cookie jar, it's because it's MY cookie jar and you can't have any!"
Please, please, hold these horrid murderers accountable. They don't even have proof that these people were breaking any law. How long do we have to put up with the Trump regime doing such awful things to people.
The lawlessness of Quad-D and his merry band of chaos makers is exhausting‼️
It is exhausting and soul-sucking.
Oh, so it was the *Pentagon*’s Law of War manual! He hasn’t outlawed or renamed the Pentagon (that I know of), so the Law of War and definition of war crimes stands.
Typical deny responsibility when they know that they did wrong? A whole generation of kids will be looking at this. I hope they find better role models. How does one explain to this to their kids?
Give hegseth and Trump as examples of people you don't want to emulate because they are mass murderers!
We can all bitch and say this was a war crime, and it was, especially if there is no war declared, but NOTHING will be done to condemn these weak, pitiful, incompetent murderers unless Congress steps up to the plate. Don't see that being done. Six Dems don't make it. They only get bomb threats.
The statue of limitations will not have run out by 2029.
The statute of limitations - fortunately in this case - does not apply to murder and a number of other serious crimes.
What exactly is this “Congress” you are mentioning? Sounds rather interesting???
Doesn't it??? Thought I'd use the word we all learned in civics classes, when we used to really have a Congress.
Trump and Hegseth can play dumb all they want but Americans are not as stupid as Trump thinks!! These killings were not done according to our military codes!!
Actually, I think Americans are very stupid. Look, they voted for Trump a second time. Couldn’t get any more stupid than that.
77 million voters are moron enough to stand there after experiencing the first 4 years of this boob's bullshit and say "Yeah, I want some more of that."
A friend of mine pointed out yesterday that Trump voters are the ones you didn't like back in school, all grown down.
Exactly. They celebrate their ignorance as though it is a badge of honor.
Our side has been trying to reach out to them based on logic and the truth. They consider lying a sport.
I am at a loss about how to get through to these people. Fox and Trump know how. Fear, tribalism, violence.
Proof that generations of INBREEDING do not produce intelligent human beings. Nope.
The guy Trump endorsed in the TN special election only won by 10 points, but it really should have been more than that. So disappointing.
So disappointing. We were given so much hope that the Democrats could win…that was cruel teasing….
I totally agree with you!
What about the three-timers?
The bottom line, regardless, we are NOT at war, according to the standards of the Constitution. All of this lawlessness must be answered for‼️
Ah…there you go…mention that good old “Constitution”…as if they care/
Excellent piece—thank you as always, Mary.
Trump lies with such ease. He did this throughout his first presidency and continues in this one. He doesn’t flinch as he spews out lie after lie.
He's never said one word that was true in the 77 years since he learned to talk.
Please stop calling this a war crime. The USA is not at war with Venezuela. In addition there is no proof that these small boats contain drugs or are manned by narco terrorists. It is extra- judicial murder and calling it anything else adds an undeserved layer of legitimacy
He just pardoned a major drug trafficker! Do you really think he cares about drug trafficking? Distraction don't you think? We still haven't seen the Epstein files, have we?
I totally agree! But every reporter no matter who they work for is referring to these murders that way. There have been instances where a military member has had a psychotic break and murdered fellow military members or civilians. Those are not considered war crimes either.
Trump has told Military Officers to view every one of those boats as "enemy warships" and has said they are "narco terrorists" that we are at war with. That sounds like we're at war, and therefore a war crime!
I think there's a difference between sounds like and actually is in this case. Just because Trump says it, doesn't make it so. Unless he's a Dictator. …….
You're right!! I misread your comment. By saying it's a war it legitimizes the murder that's occuring with these boats. He cannot unilaterally declare war just so he can justify these killings. There is no question that he is a dictator wannabe at the moment, and is attempting to remove all barriers preventing him from becoming that.
It is incumbent upon all of us under the
Corrupt administration to acknowledge that this sequence of war crimes to be not only investigated but also to hold those accountable for the muder of 80 human beings.
WHO will hold any of these monsters accountable? Really.