[Transcript edited for clarity, flow and length]
Mary Trump: If a tree falls in a forest, but nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound? By the same token, if a woman alleges that Donald raped her, and that he was indeed a co-conspirator to rapist and sex trafficker of girls and young women Jeffrey Epstein, but corporate media doesn’t report on it, did it actually happen? Yes, it did.
Dean Obedallah: Mary, it’s nice to see you. 4 days before the election, and five days before early voting ends, there are already 35 million votes cast.
Mary Trump: Oh boy, that’s wild. 4 days out, and I don’t know about you, but I cannot wait for this election to be over.
Dean Obedallah: Yeah, but it’s no longer like other elections because we know Donald, right? So it’s not about winning. It’s about seeding our people on January 3rd. What’s remarkable, Mary, is that I saw corporate media today. I was listening at the gym, and they were asking guests, “Is Donald laying the seeds to say the election’s rigged?” I’m thinking, “Laying the seeds? Were you not here in 2020?” Of course he’s going to yell that the election is rigged. We know this.
Mary Trump: He started doing this in 2016, for goodness’ sake.
Dean Obedallah: That’s right. What do you expect him to do after? They’re ready to file a lawsuit, so they’re tipping their hand a little. They’re going to claim undocumented immigrants voted, that they messed up the ballots, that there’s fraud, and all that. But in your heart, what do you think? Is he as bad as 2020, leaning in, litigating everywhere, claiming fraud right off the bat, or a little lesser because he’s not on the ballot personally? What do you think?
Mary Trump: I think it’s going to be potentially worse. Here’s the problem. If Republicans win, I think we’d have many reasons to think that is legitimate, but that would be less dangerous in the short term, even if it would be the worst possible outcome. It would be the end of the American experiment, for sure. If Democrats win, as they should, I think the ridiculously long time between the election and when the new Congress is sworn in will be very, very dangerous, because they aren’t going to let it stand. They aren’t going to take it lying down. They are going to lob all sorts of accusations, and it won’t just be lawsuits. It will be Mike Johnson refusing to seat the incoming Democratic members of the House who won reelection or election. I’m worried about our paramilitary organizations like ICE. So I think election day will be pretty fraught. In the wake of a Democratic win, that could also be more of the same, but then they have much more power than they did in 2020, unfortunately. So that’s what I’m thinking.
Dean Obedallah: It’s very interesting watching Mike Johnson. He must be taking acting lessons or improv, because they’re asking him, “Will you commit to the election being the idea of seeding the winners?” And he’s absurd. “How dare you do that to me? Who are you to say that?” But you’re the guy who organized the brief to get the Supreme Court to overturn the election. Remember that big Hail Mary lawsuit that Ken Paxton filed, which is why Donald endorsed Ken Paxton? Mike Johnson was the point person in the House to get 130 members of the House to sign it. And then Mike Johnson, after the attack, voted against certifying the election. Why should we think, how dare I? How dare you, sir? Are you kidding me?
Mary Trump: Well, especially since Donald and others are already out there saying, in response to the question, “Will you accept the results of the election?” that they will if it’s honest.
Dean Obedallah: Right, conditional.
Mary Trump: According to whom, basically. Yeah. So Mike Johnson is such a practiced liar, and he’s smarmy, which makes it even worse.
Dean Obedallah: What do you think happens? Say Democrats win the House and maybe we win the Senate as well. It looks pretty good, but that one could go either way, to be fair, of course. How do you think Donald responds over the next few years? The most dangerous lame duck ever? Does he check out? Does he just sign things, play golf, and drop bombs here or there? What do you think he does?
Mary Trump: Oh, I think he’s going to lose his mind. Well, I was going to say lose his mind, but that’s already happened. He’s going to be much worse, partially because he’s incapable of admitting a loss. And remember, he has set this up so that it will be a referendum on him. He has said to people: “Pretend I’m on the ballot.” Okay, guess what? We are, and we’re going to make sure that the Republican Party gets electorally destroyed.
So it will be a massive narcissistic injury, just as it was in 2020. Plus, of course, assuming Democrats do get control, especially of the House, they’re going to haunt him. He will not have one moment of peace. I’ve talked to enough Democratic representatives to know that they are planning for real, serious investigations in addition to other things. So accountability is very, very high on the list for a Democratic House, which, quite frankly, is very, very good to hear.
Dean Obedallah: I’ve spoken to some members of Congress who said, “We’re going to turn every committee in the House into an investigatory committee for accountability, because the tentacles go everywhere.” What about Donald Trump Jr.? You know that guy, your cousin, and Eric, in that they’re cut into Kazakhstan mining deals. I don’t know that they have any experience with the mining field, but they literally have government contracts. They’re also cut into so many things where Donald is talking to leaders, and then the leaders give money to Don Jr. Do you think Congress should be investigating that as well?
Mary Trump: Congress should be investigating absolutely everything and everyone associated with the most corrupt regime in American history. If they make the mistake that’s been made in the past of focusing on the underlings, the foot soldiers, or, and I think this is potentially a mistake that Jack Smith made, only indicting Donald for his crimes, then we’re setting ourselves up for future failure. So at the very least, Pete Hegseth, Marco Rubio, Kash Patel, and all the others, they either have to be impeached or indicted. Hegseth is a particular case. He’s a war criminal. Every single person in this regime who has enabled him, supported him, and allowed all of this should be held accountable. And I mean, there are members of Congress too. I think we need to haul Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito in as well. Donald and his useless children and his vile son in law all need to be investigated. I also think all of the money they stole from the American people should be returned to the American people, and the bulk of it should be used to undo all of the damage they’ve done. That includes tearing down the stupid ballroom, for example.
Dean Obedallah: I love it. What did you think of the Trump rally where someone yelled, “Shove the ballroom up your fat ass”? Remember Joseph Welch’s famous line to Joe McCarthy, “You have no sense of decency?” That is our version, folks, in 2026. Sense of decency. Ours is the following. I’m not kidding, on some level, that is perfect. Someone finally had the courage to say to Donald:
Mary Trump: How far we have fallen. Oh my goodness. But you’re right. That perfectly exemplifies what we have become.
Dean Obedallah: By the way, you knew Donald years ago. Did he compliment men’s asses the way he does now? Or is this just a new manifestation of dementia where there’s no more filter? Maybe he thought about men’s backsides in the past and wouldn’t say it. Now he feels like, “I’m going to say anything I want.”
Mary Trump: Oh, I mean, it’s what we call disinhibition, and it is a sign that all is not well with him cognitively speaking. It’s interesting, because I’m his niece, and I didn’t really think about what his relationships were like. My aunt shared some information with me that I wish she hadn’t when I was in my 20s. She told me that he was the most sexually driven man she had ever met. I’m like, “Thank you. Thank you, Aunt Marianne. That’s lovely.” But I never really heard him talk about men in that way. However, one of the few positive things he would ever say about my dad was that he was handsome. So he was always aware of people’s levels of attractiveness, men or women, but I think it was just because he liked to associate himself with attractiveness, because he’s not attractive, or at least I don’t think he is.
But this is absolutely off the charts. Again, I hate doing this, but it is maddening. If a Democrat spoke like that, Republicans would be saying the most outrageous things. They’re already saying stuff about James Talarico’s sexual orientation with basically no evidence whatsoever. Again, that shouldn’t be a problem for anybody. We’re talking about Republicans here who are so incredibly homophobic and espouse all the other bigotry they do. So it’s weird, and the fact that Republicans are just like, “Nothing to see here. Moving along, moving along.” Yeah, so what? Donald is admiring Houston’s rock solid ass. So what? Sure.
Dean Obedallah: It is remarkable. If James Talarico even subtly inferred that, it would go crazy. Fox News would have all these panels. You see what happened? I want to talk with you about the Ohio ad and the anti Muslim bigotry against Abdul El-Sayed, and how open it is. To me, it represents the two foundational principles of MAGA, cruelty and bigotry and hate. The cruelty is the ad against Amy Acton’s mom, and the open attacks on Abdul El-Sayed are so over the top now that they’re almost laughable. I can’t laugh, because I am Muslim, and they’re dangerous for my community. But good people in Michigan are looking at this and saying, “You’ve got to be kidding me. This is not subtle stuff.” On some level, does it represent MAGA? My thesis is that we can’t coexist with this movement politically, not the individuals, but politically. We have to not just win the midterms, but plan to destroy MAGA as a political movement and let something else form in its place. This is unsustainable for us as a republic.
Mary Trump: It is absolutely antithetical to our future, because this isn’t just swallowing it to get your party in power because, I don’t know, the candidate was found to have had an extramarital affair or something like that. This is characterological. These people are vile. They have, as part of their project, a plan to redefine in their image what it means to be an American, and they’re doing that by attacking birthright citizenship and, as we’re seeing with Ilhan Omar, attacking naturalized citizenship, almost entirely based on color and religion. The Amy Acton ad is just vile beyond comprehension. I think part of the reason it’s so dangerous is that it’s just another in a long series of attempts by the right, in particular the Trump regime, to normalize sex crimes against girls. It is not about trying to change the subject. It’s about making it okay for men to rape little girls. It’s just absolutely horrifying. The attacks against Abdul El-Sayed are, as you said, beyond the pale. The energy and ferocity of it are just staggering. I was hoping we had maybe turned a corner on this, but clearly we have not. The goal is to get enough people immediately to associate Muslim men, even if they’re born and bred in America, with Islamic extremism. I wish El-Sayed would sue these people for defamation for a hundred billion dollars, because it’s disgusting. This will be a massively corrupting influence if Republicans win by convincing people that this is okay. You cannot vote for somebody, even if it’s your party and you want your party to stay in power, when the individual is so despicable and the party supports that individual.
Dean Obedallah: Yeah, 100%. Some Republicans have pushed back. Governor Mike DeWine of Ohio had a problem with the ad, but he’s not pulling his endorsement of Vivek Ramaswamy. That should tell us everything we need to know about who these people are. And just to bring people up to speed on the last 48 hours of Abdul’s race, you had Donald campaigning with Mike Rogers there, linking Abdul to 9/11 and United 93, that plane, saying, like on United 93, when people got up, you have to get up and vote against this. And then you had Robert F. Kennedy Jr. saying Arabs and Muslims haven’t contributed anything to society. I should sue.
Mary Trump: Oh, that was one of the most unhinged, false, defamatory things they’ve ever said, and I think you should, actually. European cultures were in the dark ages while the countries that this guy is defaming were making massive advancements in the arts, mathematics, sciences, and literature. And they desperately need to make people believe that the only way forward in America is for America to be white, and that anybody who’s not a white Christian and rich doesn’t deserve to be considered human. That’s where they’re heading.
Dean Obedallah: Absolutely. Folks, look, if you like shawarma, well, thank us. Do you know any things Muslims have invented through time? Algebra doesn’t really help us, because people don’t like math, but the other stuff has been really very, very helpful through time. And then, I’m not kidding, Tim Scott last night on Fox News literally said that Abdul’s family helped fund Osama bin Laden. That was his exact wording. And Ted Cruz last night said, “If Abdul wins and goes to the Senate, Americans will die.” You’ve gotten to the point where it’s not even normal conversation. You’re beyond bigotry. You’re in this fabricated world that you live in. I’ll tell you this: we live in New York. When they did this to Zohran Mamdani, they actually ran ads with the World Trade Center blowing up in his face in the closing days. More people than ever came out to vote for Zohran. They might even like Zohran’s policies. He got more than a million votes. That’s the most any candidate for mayor has gotten since 1969, because when you make it a referendum on hate, and that’s what they’ve done, other people go, “I’m not going to go with the bigot. Sorry. I don’t know if this guy’s great or not, but I know I’m not going with these jerks, these vile, despicable people.” So I’m hoping that happens as well, that it breaks more for Abdul, that he gets the Senate, and that they’ll demonize the next group. Next time someone is transgender and runs for Senate, they’re going to do horrible things. These are despicable, irredeemable people.
Mary Trump: I think we need to make the case to voters that if you cast a vote for these people, you are complicit in their bigotry, their misogyny, and their cruelty. You are supporting that if you vote for them, even though they’re engaging in these things. Again, we should never be surprised anymore, but we should be shocked. This stuff is shocking, it’s unacceptable, and it’s disqualifying.
Dean Obedallah: Absolutely. Meanwhile, Donald is getting billions from Muslims. You’ve got Muslim money, and you’re his buddy. He’s got the plane. The kids got billions of dollars. Jared got two billion from MBS directly after the first term. It’s not an exaggeration. They’ve gotten billions from Muslims. And in 2024, Donald had Muslims on the stage in Michigan lying to the crowd, “I’m your friend, and look what we have now.” One thing that really drives me crazy, Mary, and I wrote about it on my Substack, is that they make Abdul denounce it if he ever liked someone’s Instagram account or some post. “Did you know this guy wrote three years ago all this stuff?” Meanwhile, you’ve got Mike Rogers campaigning with Donald, who incited a terrorist attack on our capital on January 6th and then pardoned the terrorists, including people from Michigan who went all the way from Michigan to DC to beat up cops. Donald pardoned them. I haven’t heard anyone in the media say to Mike Rogers, “Do you denounce this guy you’re campaigning with? He’s a domestic terrorist, and so are the terrorists he pardoned?” Nothing. Zero. Corporate media, you’re doing a terrible job.
Mary Trump: They are doing a terrible job, and the double standard endangers all of us, quite frankly. I don’t know if you saw the Serbian news presenter who, in the wake of the Serbian election, apologized on behalf of the media for doing exactly what our corporate media have been doing for over a decade now. So yes, American mainstream, corporate, legacy media, you really owe us an apology, and you need to do better.
Dean Obedallah: One other area I wanted to touch on, in the same vein. Earlier this week, the House Judiciary Committee, which is still in the minority, put out a new report on Epstein with new findings. I’ll read a teeny bit from it. If you haven’t heard of this, it’s because corporate media is refusing to cover it. In the report, for the first time, it alleges that Trump and Epstein together used the Donald J. Trump American Dream Pageant competition as a hunting ground to prey on 16 to 22 year olds. It gave us more details about the rape of Ms. Switzerland, who came and talked to the committee. Before that, she talked about being harassed. This time is the first time she said in great detail that Jeffrey Epstein essentially groomed her and hurt her, and then Donald raped her in a hotel room. Another woman, Stacey Williams, a former Sports Illustrated model, said Donald groped her, and corporate media’s response is, “Meh, we don’t have to cover this. We’ll just cover everything else that is nonsense.” Getting back to your point, on some level, it’s a normalization of rape by our corporate media, the same thing Trump wants, the same thing Vivek wants.
Mary Trump: Yeah. Listen, one of the things woven into the fabric of this country is a very deep misogyny, and it’s never even talked about. It’s just, yeah, women aren’t actually fully fledged humans. They shouldn’t have all the rights men have, obviously. I think Jamie Raskin, just a day or two ago, basically said that if only we hadn’t disregarded all of those women in 2016 who came out at great personal risk to let us know exactly who Donald was, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. But women are not to be believed, according to these people, and they want to normalize the inherent untrustworthiness of women. I think that by allowing this stuff to go unreported, it is just another way to revictimize these women and to keep women under the thumb of the men in power.
Dean Obedallah: I think you made such a good point earlier when we were talking about the Amy Acton ad by Vivek, and how the bigger picture here is not political, but societal. It’s the norm to make you not believe women when they come forward, even a child, and say they’re raped. That is part of the male mindset of the MAGA movement. That’s fuel for Trump, this misogyny and male supremacy. I can only imagine what young women watching this feel, or any woman who watches, to be frank, because I’ve had people call my radio show, and they were retraumatized after what they went through, watching what’s going on, because they get exactly what you’re getting at with the point you’re making. They feel the pain again. It’s horrific.
Mary Trump: Yeah, and it’s going to take a lot of good men to stand up, because right now they’re getting away with all of this stuff. Just think about how deep-seated this is. We have the Attorney General of the United States doing favors for a convicted serial rapist and sex trafficker, Ghislaine Maxwell, to protect Donald. That’s just one example, but it shows you how deep the rot goes and how it’s a conspiracy. It is a conspiracy at the highest levels of the American government to cover up what must be horrific crimes and, as we’ve been saying, to normalize the kinds of crimes against young women and girls that it seems a lot of these men have committed over the last several decades.
Dean Obedallah: Women are sexually assaulted or even raped almost every minute, or about every two minutes, depending on how you average it out and what sources you look at. It’s horrific. It’s an epidemic of violence in America, and it’s because people are not held accountable. People victimize and revictimize the women. Why would they come forward? So last thing I want to ask you, put your psychologist hat on. Is that the right term?
Mary Trump: That’s the right term.
Dean Obedallah: Right. So you’re a psychologist, and so is my sister. So you’re good people. Donald last night mocked his own supporters for not having the money to come to Mar-a-Lago. He said, “You could even come to Mar-a-Lago. You’ll be my guest,” and they cheered. Then he thought about it, and he said, …the problem is that $5,000, which is his bribe. The most you’d be able to buy is a hamburger, maybe a small dessert. I’m not even sure you could buy that, so don’t go there. It’s not a good place if you’re price conscious.
And they laughed.
Mary Trump: Yeah, hysterical. Totally. Donald can’t help but make himself seem better than everybody. He’s richer, he’s smarter, he has a fancier home, whatever. He always needs to one up the person, even if that person is not in any kind of competition with him. The other thing is that this is the psychology of fascism. Humiliating your most ardent supporters, the people in your inner circle, in a counterintuitive way, makes them cling to you more. Hitler did this. Every single person in Hitler’s inner circle was humiliated by Hitler at one point or another. So it’s a pretty common tool. I think with Donald, it just kind of comes naturally, because he’s so deeply insecure, and he learned from his father, my grandfather, that there are joys to be had in humiliating people, especially if they’re weaker and less powerful than you are, which is awesome.
Dean Obedallah: No, that’s awful. I remember you sharing how Donald at times was nice to your dad, but other times there was the garbage that we saw. I think I read about it in your book, and we’ve seen that movie.
Mary Trump: We’ve got lots of content coming out, especially in the lead up to this most important election of our lifetime, the midterms. We’re on all of the social platforms.
Dean Obedallah: All of it. Mary, it was great to see you, my friend. I thank you so much. I look forward to seeing you either before election day on your show, or after we do a big panel discussion. Definitely. I want to thank you all for joining us right here. Thanks, everyone. Take care, Mary. Nice to see you.
Mary Trump: Bye, everyone. Thank you.
Pot calling the kettle black
Thank you for the transcript, Mary. Yes I am aware of his rigging the elections at anytime.