Both James Madison (known as the "Father of the Constitution") and Thomas Jefferson (author of the Declaration of Independence) were the primary founders who strongly believed in and championed the separation of church and state.
James Madison wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights (including the First Amendment). He fervently believed that religion and government work best when they stay completely separate. He wrote that mixing government and faith corrupts both institutions, and he fought to end religious taxes in Virginia.
Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence and later served as president. (Though not a writer of the core Constitution text, he was a key Founding Father who shaped American religious freedom). Jefferson created the famous phrase describing a "wall of separation between Church & State" in an 1802 letter. Basing his views on the establishment clause of the First Amendment which said that there should be “no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” Jefferson stated that there must be a “wall of separation” that clearly limited the involvement of religious denominations and religious leaders in matters related to national governance. He also wrote the Virginia Statue for Religious Freedom, which made sure the state could not force anyone to fund or follow a specific religion.
Christian Nationalists will justify violations of separation of church and state by pointing to things like “In God We Trust” being our national motto and “under God” appearing in the Pledge of Allegiance. These practices, they argue, prove that religion and government have long mixed in the United States.
However what they fail to mention is it “did not come from the Founding Fathers”, and it was not the original motto of the United States. For the first 170+ years of American history, the de facto national motto was "E Pluribus Unum" ("Out of many, one"), which was chosen by the founders for the Great Seal.
The introduction of "In God We Trust" happened much later, in two distinct historical waves driven by times of intense national crisis. It wasn’t until 30 July 1956 that “In God We Trust” became the official U.S. motto. President Dwight Eisenhower signed a law passed by the 84th Congress, replacing “E Pluribus Unum” (Latin: “Out of many, one”), which had appeared on the Great Seal of the United States since 1782.
The Republican Party which formally emphasized religious faith and aligned heavily with the Christian Right for roughly 50 years, tracing its structured political integration back to the late 1970s it has finally taken this long to burst into this MAGA cult that what came about from the Moral Majority in which a convicted Felon for fraud plus a convicted sexual abuser is at its helm.
The morals were rarely followed in private yet preached for others to do so. Think Nixon or Agnew had morals? It’s always been a facade, a show to establish their agenda. It’s been the purity of the white race, to keep the money in the hands of the richest and powerful and have control over all females. MAGA just opened the door to the inside of the con that has been going on for the last five decades.
I wish the phony white Christian Nationalists would stop using people’s faith as a goal for their lust for power. They have their own writers to falsify the First Amendment and the founders’ intentions, such as Eric Metaxas and David Barton. Metaxas should know better with his Yale education. Barton falsifies history so badly that his last book had to be removed from the market by its publisher.
Thanks so much Mary for having Congressmen Huffman on today. I can’t wait to read his book.
I’ve been both a Mormon and an evangelical Christian. I was raised Mormon from the age of six until I was sixteen. I left that church when I was told that because my boyfriend was Catholic, I couldn’t get into heaven, so I left and never went back. As I’m sure Congressman Huffman can attest to, the Mormon church doesn’t leave you alone once you walk away, and you’re shunned by many. I married my boyfriend, Tony, and we’ve been together nearly 52 years and married nearly 47 years. Some things you just don’t mess with.
When I was 17, I began attending Charismatic prayer meetings where I became a born again Christian, and I lived by a lot of the evangelical teachings. Later, I found them to be the most judgmental people I had ever met. I found my home in the Catholic faith and converted before I married. No, Catholicism isn’t perfect, and there are definitely ghosts in its closet, but I’ve never heard a priest tear down other religions like my two previous faiths did.
Today, I’m 67, and I have grown way beyond any religion and feel it’s a way to control people with guilt trips, bribery of the “afterlife” and mind control. I’m a very spiritual person, but I no longer need a religion to define me. I do believe in a higher power and still pray, so I guess that makes me agnostic.
What has happened to our country in the name of “Christianity” has completely turned me off from calling myself Christian. I behave like a Christian, but I’m also an empath, so I think the two things kind of go hand-in-hand well, but each stands on its own as well.
I am a Christian and I went to all of the churches. Then I went to college and I got a bachelor's in biblical education. And from there I went back to college, and I majored in Political Science and International Relations and I studied Law. While majoring in Political Science I took a course in World Religions. That's when I got a real eye opener. I joined the Eastern Orthodox Christian Church. They don't judge any one's religion. And they don't try to force people to become Orthodox. Religion is a choice that one makes for themselves. There is only one way to heaven to heaven and that is repentance and to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. I am not saying everyone else is going to hell. Or that people of other faith can't get into heaven. God knows who truly believes in him and who doesn't.
And judging other people is one sure way to end up in serious trouble. For the way you judge others, you shall be judged. Jesus said it. We should respect each other and vote for what is best for our nation as a whole. You should not hate anyone just because they don't agree with you. Or because they choose not to go to any church. People have a right not to have any religion.
Yes, it is very hard to leave a fundamental religion in which you have been raised. I was a professor in a christian college when I reached the point at which I could no longer believe any of the doctrine or dogma. So, of course, I lost my job and had to start my life all over again. Then, for nine years, I facilitated a peer support group for people who left any fundamentalist religion. People who have not been involve with a fundamentalist religion have no concept what people go through when they leave. You lose everything, your community, your support system (or your job). I personally know at least six people who went through a divorce when they left their religion. But it is worth it. When I lost my religion, I found myself.
Thank you, William. You are so right. Fundamentalist religions and cults have a lot in common and people experience many of the same things when they leave. In fact, there is one interesting thing that most people experience after they have gone through the process of extracting themselves from the faith or cult. Nearly all of us are embarrassed that we ever believed the teachings because they seem so absurd from the outside.
I know how fundamentalist behave. They think they are right and everyone else is wrong. You can't drink, you can't smoke, and all the don'ts never stop. And they serve grape juice and a dried cracker for their communion. The Bible is very clear that at the last supper Jesus served wine and bread. As hot as the desert gets any juice left sitting out long enough will turn into real wine. And it isn't what goes into a man's body that destroys him it is what comes out of his mouth that will defile him or make him.
Wow, Bonnie, you hit the nail on the head. In the religion that I grew up in, not only couldn't you drink or smoke, we couldn't dance or go to movies. I couldn't go to my high school prom. It seemed like the whole religion was based on "don'ts.
Thank you so much Mary for having Rep. Huffman on your show to explain to us what’s going on and to promote his new book, “No Prophets”. I saw Huffman on Waj’s show earlier, too, and I hope that other media sites decide to help promote his book and cause as well. The issue of separation of church and state is so important, as you well know. Yay❣️It is inspiring and so good to hear important, intelligent and reasonable ideas being discussed. Yay❣️Yay❣️Yay❣️
James Talarico is a true Christian, and, he also does not shove HIS religious views onto others, but rather wants to continue fighting for separation of church and state, so, I would think, but I will let Mary answer for herself, but personally, I think he is exactly what we need in legislature, and I hope we will one day see him run for President, but first things , first. We need to first clean up Congress and out vote as many “Christian” nationalists as possible, so that we can get this country on track to being the type of nation our forefathers set out to make. Separation of church and states — Freedom of religion and freedom FROM religion, if one chooses not to follow any religious doctrine or faith practice. Many an atheist are more CHRIST LIKE than any “Christian” nationalist
Pardon the pun, but "Amen" to that. Former Republican, then Democrat, now Independent. Former Methodist, now no religious affiliation. I am now greatly motivated by Native American and Buddhist spirituality. It fills my soul.
You haven’t asked me, but I find James Talarico to be a breath of fresh air. He is knowledgeable about scripture and can discuss how the teachings of Jesus DONOT align with the extreme views of Christian nationalist. He seems friendly, intelligent, caring and he’s so cute. I really, really hope he wins his race in Texas this year.
Obviously no one wants to limit Christian thought at the highest levels of government. The problem is the eternal trap of thinking that religious freedom means the freedom to silence all religions but your own.
Thank you for this lovely conversation. Pope Leo doesn’t push religion at all. He is a good pontiff. He, fights every day against white Christian nationalism. Thank you Rep Huffman. Tuxedo man is kissing the phone and sending his love to auntie Mary.
I read Congressman Huffman’s book, and it was excellent! I found out very important information that I didn’t know regarding J6, and I am livid. I watched every minute of the J6 hearings and read the entire J6 report, the information in Congressman’s Huffman’s book floored me and to be honest, sickens me. GET THE BOOK!
These people are not Christians. They are Christists. They have co-opted the name of Christianity without any of its ethos. It is time to identify Christism as a distinct and perilous ideology that has nothing to do with true Christianity and should not, cannot continue to usurp the moral protection that genuinely Christian behaviour would afford it.
Religion is a brain worm imposed upon children by what should be seen as intellectual abuse. I feel sorry for anyone/everyone suffering this condition. It is not their fault, but this doesn't mean the nationalist fringe is not dangerous; it needs to be contained.
So, on the one hand you have the broligarchs, creating their machine god in their image, while the rest of your country has to deal with Russell Vaught…
They are the biggest threat to this country.
It's an insult to include the word "Christian" in the same room as these Beelzebub nationalists. The Orcs don't belong in our public life.
Great LOTR reference, and very true as well.
Both James Madison (known as the "Father of the Constitution") and Thomas Jefferson (author of the Declaration of Independence) were the primary founders who strongly believed in and championed the separation of church and state.
James Madison wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights (including the First Amendment). He fervently believed that religion and government work best when they stay completely separate. He wrote that mixing government and faith corrupts both institutions, and he fought to end religious taxes in Virginia.
Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence and later served as president. (Though not a writer of the core Constitution text, he was a key Founding Father who shaped American religious freedom). Jefferson created the famous phrase describing a "wall of separation between Church & State" in an 1802 letter. Basing his views on the establishment clause of the First Amendment which said that there should be “no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” Jefferson stated that there must be a “wall of separation” that clearly limited the involvement of religious denominations and religious leaders in matters related to national governance. He also wrote the Virginia Statue for Religious Freedom, which made sure the state could not force anyone to fund or follow a specific religion.
Christian Nationalists will justify violations of separation of church and state by pointing to things like “In God We Trust” being our national motto and “under God” appearing in the Pledge of Allegiance. These practices, they argue, prove that religion and government have long mixed in the United States.
However what they fail to mention is it “did not come from the Founding Fathers”, and it was not the original motto of the United States. For the first 170+ years of American history, the de facto national motto was "E Pluribus Unum" ("Out of many, one"), which was chosen by the founders for the Great Seal.
The introduction of "In God We Trust" happened much later, in two distinct historical waves driven by times of intense national crisis. It wasn’t until 30 July 1956 that “In God We Trust” became the official U.S. motto. President Dwight Eisenhower signed a law passed by the 84th Congress, replacing “E Pluribus Unum” (Latin: “Out of many, one”), which had appeared on the Great Seal of the United States since 1782.
The Republican Party which formally emphasized religious faith and aligned heavily with the Christian Right for roughly 50 years, tracing its structured political integration back to the late 1970s it has finally taken this long to burst into this MAGA cult that what came about from the Moral Majority in which a convicted Felon for fraud plus a convicted sexual abuser is at its helm.
The morals were rarely followed in private yet preached for others to do so. Think Nixon or Agnew had morals? It’s always been a facade, a show to establish their agenda. It’s been the purity of the white race, to keep the money in the hands of the richest and powerful and have control over all females. MAGA just opened the door to the inside of the con that has been going on for the last five decades.
James Madison and Religious Freedom
https://www.montpelier.org/religious-freedom/
The Doctrine of Separation of Church and State
https://www.bridgew.edu/stories/2023/doctrine-separation-church-and-state
Thomas Jefferson and Religious Freedom
https://www.monticello.org/encyclopedia/thomas-jefferson-and-religious-freedom
In God We Trust’: Don’t blame it on the founders
https://www.au.org/the-latest/articles/in-god-we-trust-founders-1950s/
I wish the phony white Christian Nationalists would stop using people’s faith as a goal for their lust for power. They have their own writers to falsify the First Amendment and the founders’ intentions, such as Eric Metaxas and David Barton. Metaxas should know better with his Yale education. Barton falsifies history so badly that his last book had to be removed from the market by its publisher.
Good. It needed to be removed.
Great synopsis, thank you
Thank you for all of your quotes. You are right.
Thanks so much Mary for having Congressmen Huffman on today. I can’t wait to read his book.
I’ve been both a Mormon and an evangelical Christian. I was raised Mormon from the age of six until I was sixteen. I left that church when I was told that because my boyfriend was Catholic, I couldn’t get into heaven, so I left and never went back. As I’m sure Congressman Huffman can attest to, the Mormon church doesn’t leave you alone once you walk away, and you’re shunned by many. I married my boyfriend, Tony, and we’ve been together nearly 52 years and married nearly 47 years. Some things you just don’t mess with.
When I was 17, I began attending Charismatic prayer meetings where I became a born again Christian, and I lived by a lot of the evangelical teachings. Later, I found them to be the most judgmental people I had ever met. I found my home in the Catholic faith and converted before I married. No, Catholicism isn’t perfect, and there are definitely ghosts in its closet, but I’ve never heard a priest tear down other religions like my two previous faiths did.
Today, I’m 67, and I have grown way beyond any religion and feel it’s a way to control people with guilt trips, bribery of the “afterlife” and mind control. I’m a very spiritual person, but I no longer need a religion to define me. I do believe in a higher power and still pray, so I guess that makes me agnostic.
What has happened to our country in the name of “Christianity” has completely turned me off from calling myself Christian. I behave like a Christian, but I’m also an empath, so I think the two things kind of go hand-in-hand well, but each stands on its own as well.
I am a Christian and I went to all of the churches. Then I went to college and I got a bachelor's in biblical education. And from there I went back to college, and I majored in Political Science and International Relations and I studied Law. While majoring in Political Science I took a course in World Religions. That's when I got a real eye opener. I joined the Eastern Orthodox Christian Church. They don't judge any one's religion. And they don't try to force people to become Orthodox. Religion is a choice that one makes for themselves. There is only one way to heaven to heaven and that is repentance and to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. I am not saying everyone else is going to hell. Or that people of other faith can't get into heaven. God knows who truly believes in him and who doesn't.
And judging other people is one sure way to end up in serious trouble. For the way you judge others, you shall be judged. Jesus said it. We should respect each other and vote for what is best for our nation as a whole. You should not hate anyone just because they don't agree with you. Or because they choose not to go to any church. People have a right not to have any religion.
Yes, it is very hard to leave a fundamental religion in which you have been raised. I was a professor in a christian college when I reached the point at which I could no longer believe any of the doctrine or dogma. So, of course, I lost my job and had to start my life all over again. Then, for nine years, I facilitated a peer support group for people who left any fundamentalist religion. People who have not been involve with a fundamentalist religion have no concept what people go through when they leave. You lose everything, your community, your support system (or your job). I personally know at least six people who went through a divorce when they left their religion. But it is worth it. When I lost my religion, I found myself.
I think this explains why so many remain in the cult of Trump. Glad you made it out Lois.
Thank you, William. You are so right. Fundamentalist religions and cults have a lot in common and people experience many of the same things when they leave. In fact, there is one interesting thing that most people experience after they have gone through the process of extracting themselves from the faith or cult. Nearly all of us are embarrassed that we ever believed the teachings because they seem so absurd from the outside.
I know how fundamentalist behave. They think they are right and everyone else is wrong. You can't drink, you can't smoke, and all the don'ts never stop. And they serve grape juice and a dried cracker for their communion. The Bible is very clear that at the last supper Jesus served wine and bread. As hot as the desert gets any juice left sitting out long enough will turn into real wine. And it isn't what goes into a man's body that destroys him it is what comes out of his mouth that will defile him or make him.
Wow, Bonnie, you hit the nail on the head. In the religion that I grew up in, not only couldn't you drink or smoke, we couldn't dance or go to movies. I couldn't go to my high school prom. It seemed like the whole religion was based on "don'ts.
Thank you so much Mary for having Rep. Huffman on your show to explain to us what’s going on and to promote his new book, “No Prophets”. I saw Huffman on Waj’s show earlier, too, and I hope that other media sites decide to help promote his book and cause as well. The issue of separation of church and state is so important, as you well know. Yay❣️It is inspiring and so good to hear important, intelligent and reasonable ideas being discussed. Yay❣️Yay❣️Yay❣️
So, Mary, where do you stand on James Talarico? He's religious, but definitely not a Christian Nationalist.
James Talarico is a true Christian, and, he also does not shove HIS religious views onto others, but rather wants to continue fighting for separation of church and state, so, I would think, but I will let Mary answer for herself, but personally, I think he is exactly what we need in legislature, and I hope we will one day see him run for President, but first things , first. We need to first clean up Congress and out vote as many “Christian” nationalists as possible, so that we can get this country on track to being the type of nation our forefathers set out to make. Separation of church and states — Freedom of religion and freedom FROM religion, if one chooses not to follow any religious doctrine or faith practice. Many an atheist are more CHRIST LIKE than any “Christian” nationalist
Pardon the pun, but "Amen" to that. Former Republican, then Democrat, now Independent. Former Methodist, now no religious affiliation. I am now greatly motivated by Native American and Buddhist spirituality. It fills my soul.
100% agree.
You haven’t asked me, but I find James Talarico to be a breath of fresh air. He is knowledgeable about scripture and can discuss how the teachings of Jesus DONOT align with the extreme views of Christian nationalist. He seems friendly, intelligent, caring and he’s so cute. I really, really hope he wins his race in Texas this year.
I'm 100% with you. I asked because as Mary Trump was speaking, I thought she & her guest described Talarico to a T, but didn't mention him.
Obviously no one wants to limit Christian thought at the highest levels of government. The problem is the eternal trap of thinking that religious freedom means the freedom to silence all religions but your own.
I want it out of the god damned government
Thank you for this lovely conversation. Pope Leo doesn’t push religion at all. He is a good pontiff. He, fights every day against white Christian nationalism. Thank you Rep Huffman. Tuxedo man is kissing the phone and sending his love to auntie Mary.
Please correct the name of his book to "No Prophets" Thank you!
I read Congressman Huffman’s book, and it was excellent! I found out very important information that I didn’t know regarding J6, and I am livid. I watched every minute of the J6 hearings and read the entire J6 report, the information in Congressman’s Huffman’s book floored me and to be honest, sickens me. GET THE BOOK!
Bookshop.org says the book is No Prophets. You have No Profits on your transcript. Which is correct?
These people are not Christians. They are Christists. They have co-opted the name of Christianity without any of its ethos. It is time to identify Christism as a distinct and perilous ideology that has nothing to do with true Christianity and should not, cannot continue to usurp the moral protection that genuinely Christian behaviour would afford it.
Well said.
They are giving Xians a bad name and keep many away…including me.
Religion is a brain worm imposed upon children by what should be seen as intellectual abuse. I feel sorry for anyone/everyone suffering this condition. It is not their fault, but this doesn't mean the nationalist fringe is not dangerous; it needs to be contained.
Freedom of thought; a breath of fresh air.
So, on the one hand you have the broligarchs, creating their machine god in their image, while the rest of your country has to deal with Russell Vaught…
Glad I don’t live in the USA. By god…