Live with Joanna Coles
[Transcript edited for clarity, length and flow]
I sat down with Joanna Coles of the Daily Beast for a lengthy conversation about what in the world was Melania thinking? Why does anybody care? Also, we talked about the toll that Donald’s illegal unconstitutional war of choice must be taking on him and how it might be driving him to further extremes. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did because I always have a blast talking to Joanna.
Joanna Coles:
Mary Trump, fantastic to have you back on the podcast. There’s a lot to discuss, not least how your uncle, the president, copes under pressure. I want to talk about the 25th Amendment, because you’ve previously mentioned seeing echoes of your grandfather’s dementia in Donald. But first, I want to ask about Melania Trump—your step-aunt—and her recent statement. She said she never really knew Jeffrey Epstein or Ghislaine Maxwell, insisted she’s never been accused of anything, and oddly suggested Congress should talk to victims and even some of the men involved. As a clinical psychologist, what was she saying—and what wasn’t she saying?
Mary Trump:
What she was saying, oddly enough, is, “I have no connection to a pedophile and sex trafficker,” which is not something you’d expect a First Lady to need to clarify. So she’s clearly trying to get ahead of something. I’ve met Melania once, a long time ago, so I don’t claim to know her. But the statement was bizarre—especially because it drew attention to the Epstein files, something Donald has been trying to bury.
She claims she had nothing to do with Epstein or Maxwell, despite documented evidence suggesting otherwise. Then she says, “I’m not a victim.” Well, if we can show she was connected to them, that means she willingly associated with two of the worst people imaginable. What’s puzzling is whether she did this independently or with approval. It’s hard to believe she acted without permission. So why would his team think this was a good idea? Unless, as some have joked, she’s trying to distract from something else.
Joanna Coles:
What did you make of her delivery?
Mary Trump:
It was aggressive. The way she entered the room suggested she expected to be believed simply because she said something. She seemed out of her depth, but also convinced she was controlling the situation.
Joanna Coles:
She looked angry to me, like she didn’t want to be there.
Mary Trump:
That tracks. She rarely seems to want to be anywhere, especially with Donald. So again, why was she doing this? She appeared resentful—like, “Why do I have to deal with this?” The answer is, she didn’t have to. But in doing so, she reminded everyone about the Epstein files.
Joanna Coles:
Their relationship appears transactional. She’s calling for transparency, while he’s tried to suppress it. What do you make of that?
Mary Trump:
She has no power to enforce transparency. What she did was cruel. Epstein’s victims have already shown extraordinary bravery, speaking out despite enormous pressure. For her to suggest they need to do more is insulting.
She’s trying to present herself as transparent while denying reality. “Ignore the photos, ignore the emails—I had nothing to do with it.” It mirrors Donald’s tactic: promise transparency, then claim it’s out of his hands while blocking it behind the scenes. I found it offensive.
Joanna Coles:
Do you think she’s trying to separate her brand from his?
Mary Trump:
Absolutely—and she’s not alone. You see it with figures like Megan Kelly, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and others who suddenly claim Donald has gone too far. But he hasn’t changed. He’s always been this person. They helped elevate him and are now trying to distance themselves.
Their reputations shouldn’t be rehabilitated. They were complicit. So no, I don’t have sympathy for that.
Joanna Coles:
You’ve spoken before about your grandfather’s dementia. What similarities do you see now?
Mary Trump:
It’s increasingly alarming. As Donald declines—physically, cognitively, psychologically—he’s revealing who he’s always been. My grandfather began showing clear symptoms in his late 70s, around Donald’s current age.
I remember an event where my grandfather suddenly looked terrified—like he didn’t know where he was. I see that same disorientation in Donald. Add to that falling asleep during the day and worsening impulse control. That’s especially concerning, because it only gets worse. And Donald already started from a volatile baseline.
Joanna Coles:
What did that loss of impulse control look like in your grandfather?
Mary Trump:
Late at night, he would become paranoid—accusing my grandmother of stealing his checkbook. He feared losing money. These episodes escalated into intense rage. He never became physically violent, but it was frightening enough that they eventually had someone stay overnight for safety.
Donald already lacks impulse control, so it’s sobering to think where this could lead.
Joanna Coles:
Given what you’ve seen, is he fit to be president?
Mary Trump:
He’s never been fit. But now we have objective concerns. A president who is disoriented, impulsive, physically unwell, and threatening extreme actions—those are not acceptable traits. That shouldn’t be controversial.
Joanna Coles:
How is he handling pressure now, especially as some of his base begins to criticize him?
Mary Trump:
It’s likely making him worse. He’s under stress levels he’s never experienced. For the first time, he may realize he’s losing control—and that no one can save him.
Historically, someone always bailed him out—his father, banks, media networks, political allies. Now there’s no one. He fired Pam Bondi not for disloyalty, but because she couldn’t protect him from himself.
That’s why we’re seeing increasingly erratic behavior. He started a war without understanding the consequences, and now he’s lashing out. And there’s no bottom—there’s always worse with him.
Joanna Coles:
What about J.D. Vance being sent to negotiate?
Mary Trump:
It’s another example of Donald distancing himself from responsibility. If things go badly, it’s someone else’s fault. My grandfather did the same—never wrong, always blaming others.
Vance is being set up to fail, even as Donald sees him as a potential successor. The idea of someone succeeding him is intolerable, so he undermines them preemptively.
Joanna Coles:
So if he can’t succeed, no one can?
Mary Trump:
Exactly.
Joanna Coles:
On a lighter note, what do people say when they meet you?
Mary Trump:
I live in New York—nobody cares. That’s one of the best things about it. Occasionally someone asks why I don’t change my name. It’s my name. If anything, I’d prefer Donald and his children change theirs.
Joanna Coles:
Will you be invited to Donald Jr.’s wedding?
Mary Trump:
I didn’t even know he was getting married. But I’d love to go—purely for observational purposes.
Joanna Coles:
You could report from inside.
Mary Trump:
All it would require is sucking up to Donald and selling my soul.
Joanna Coles:
I don’t see that happening. Mary Trump, thank you as always. Your insights are invaluable.
Mary Trump:
Thanks, Joanna. This was great.
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Melania is in self preservation mode. She is a narcissist like DonOld, but less psychotic. Try as she might, she's in it past the goldilocks.
Families are kind of pathetic. Good luck. I’m hoping mine will die sooner than later. No presidents but a lot of dementia. Sadly, they are all orange mussolini voters. I will never ever forgive them. Hell is a good residence. I hope they are at least one layer underneath that and I hope your uncle is 1,000 layers beneath them. You are brave and it is so sad you were born into this family. You looked so happy when you announced your marriage. You deserve peace, support and contentment. I hope you get that. All the best.