Live with Ruth Ben- Ghiat

6 May, 2026

[Transcript edited for clarity, flow and length]

Ruth Ben-Ghiat: Hi everyone. Yes, this is Ruth Ben-Ghiat here with Mary Trump. Really good to see everyone. So Mary, yes, there is so much to talk about. You, on your amazing Substack, had recently a very sobering article about the coming food shortage. So if you could talk about that. The farmers are suffering, and of course this was the demographic that Donald originally promised to love and cherish, and they would be forgotten no longer.

Mary Trump: Yeah. And as you know, long before this, the second iteration of the Trump regime has been incredibly bad for farmers anyway. People do not necessarily know, but dismantling USAID, which was one of the most vital and important agencies this country had, did incredible work around the world and increased our soft power. It also enormously benefited American farmers because they were paid by USAID to send their produce and goods to other countries that needed food and supplies. Also, the tariffs have been horrible for farmers, and Donald’s policies have been as well. So to add insult to injury, despite giving them money to bail them out from a problem he created, this increasingly alarming global energy crisis is having an enormous impact on the availability of affordable fertilizer, which makes it difficult for all aspects of farming and agriculture.

Mary Trump: So we are looking at disruptions. These are not short-term disruptions. Even if the strait opens tomorrow, which it is not going to, we are looking at the disruption of cycles. Farming is cyclical. Farmers need to plan ahead. If one cycle is disrupted, other cycles down the road will be disrupted. So we are looking at massive food shortages. We are looking at an increase in prices, and we are looking at the increasing risk of American farmers, and farmers across the world, facing bankruptcy and no longer being viable. This seems like something more people should be talking about because this is not just about energy. There are people who think this energy crisis might increase the possibility that we turn to alternative energy sources, which we should have done all along.

Ruth Ben-Ghiat: But they are trying to defeat everything to do with clean energy.

Mary Trump: Yes. So maybe that will settle that conversation. Who knows. Probably not. But at least people are talking about that. It is the hidden costs of this illegal, unconstitutional war of choice that is not only accomplishing nothing that we were told it would accomplish, because we do not know what they wanted to accomplish in the first place. They have no clear rationale. The hidden results of this are going to start hitting us in ways most people are not prepared for.

Ruth Ben-Ghiat: Yeah. So there are two wars going on. One is the war in Iran, which was badly planned. Now the economic costs are going to be felt. Then there is the war of ICE and the war on Americans. It is not unrelated. Donald had a small business event because it is National Small Business Week. We need to talk about how bad the ICE operations are, not just where it was like a citywide militarized presence in the Twin Cities, but around the country. Reports are coming out now about the toll of ICE activities on small businesses in Los Angeles, in Chicago. An Illinois state committee just published a report. The disruption to everyday life and to small business owners has been far more than we are hearing about in national media.

Ruth Ben-Ghiat: This goes together because farmers are small businesses as well. This is something we all need to message more because many of Donald’s base are small business people. They are not the big capitalists. That is part of it, but this is really important.

Mary Trump: It is incredibly important. It is happening everywhere. I know it is not ICE in Washington, DC, but the presence of the National Guard has had a negative effect on small businesses. Restaurants are closing. Uber drivers and cab drivers are not making money. This is anecdotal, but I was in DC a few months ago. It was a beautiful Saturday in spring, three o’clock in the afternoon, and we were going to dinner. We were the first ride for this Uber driver, and he had been on duty since nine in the morning. So it is real.

Mary Trump: ICE, in particular, is creating all sorts of disruptions. Part of the problem is that we are not messaging this well enough. Democrats certainly are not. When most people think of ICE, they think about the violence, the suppression of civil liberties, the cruelty toward immigrants and undocumented workers, and all of that is incredibly important. But it is also the knock-on effects. By ignoring them or allowing Donald to control the narrative, something is starting to happen that I have been worried about for a long time.

Mary Trump: When Donald got back into office, I thought we would get to the point where they would raise something like Social Security and tell people that if you really love America, you would be willing to give it up. That is what we are starting to hear. A potential justification for ICE operations interfering with small businesses becomes framed as a sacrifice for patriotism. You should be willing to spend taxpayer money on things like his ballroom. I feel like we are very close to them justifying their actions by making it seem patriotic to suffer.

Ruth Ben-Ghiat: Yes. And when Elon Musk was allowed into government, that was a different kind of situation. My mother lost her Social Security for four months because they were supposedly looking for fraud. My 94-year-old mother with dementia lost her Social Security. We got it back through her member of Congress, but it was a hardship.

Ruth Ben-Ghiat: I mention this because they already tried to go after Social Security through the excuse of fraud. That was like a test run. The way it would be framed is that if you are a good American, you will make sacrifices. It is important to talk about how tax dollars are being used. In autocracies, people pay to be repressed. That is something to focus on.

Mary Trump: Exactly. This is a twofold project. On one hand, we need to ask people direct questions. Is it okay that Americans are being harmed on American soil. If it is okay, why. On the other hand, we need to appeal to people’s self-interest. I do not like doing that, but right now people are starting to wake up because gas is more expensive.

Mary Trump: We need to ask, why is it okay that you cannot afford healthcare anymore. Why is it okay that money is being spent on things that do not benefit you. These are the questions people need to confront.

Ruth Ben-Ghiat: Let us talk about the ballroom and bunker. You are a clinical psychologist, and I have focused on the psychology of autocrats. People like Donald do not see a divide between public and private. Everything becomes theirs. The White House becomes personal. It becomes a safe space. How do you see this.

Mary Trump: There are a few things going on. At the most basic level, this is about his psychopathology. The best way to think about Donald is that he is both a terrified little boy and a black hole of need. That void exists because nobody ever really loved him. He desperately wants to be loved, but he never will be.

Mary Trump: Because of that, everything has to be the biggest and the best. Everything needs his name on it. But there will never be enough. There is not enough money or power to fill that void. That is why the ballroom keeps expanding in scope and cost. That is what is driving it.

Mary Trump: There is also something more troubling. There is a bunker involved. Is he planning never to leave. Possibly. But more troubling are the people around him who know better and allow it to happen anyway. They could have stopped this at any time.

Ruth Ben-Ghiat: That is key. There was recently a video of Donald sleeping in the Oval Office while others continued talking as if nothing was happening. It is like the emperor has no clothes. He is a problem, but the people around him pretending everything is fine is equally troubling.

Mary Trump: It might be more troubling. The people who have the power to stop this are choosing not to. Anyone listening to him knows he is compromised in every way. Psychologically, emotionally, cognitively, physically. He has never been fit, and he is becoming more unfit daily. They all know it and pretend otherwise.

Ruth Ben-Ghiat: Exactly. All right, we have been with Mary Trump.

Mary Trump: That is on YouTube, and my SubStack is The Good in Us.

Ruth Ben-Ghiat: The Good in Us is essential reading. If you are not subscribed, you should be. We will do this again. It is always great to talk with you.

Mary Trump: Thank you so much, Ruth. And thank you to everyone watching. I will see you soon. Please check out Ruth’s SubStack, Lucid. Link Below!