Live with Waj Ali

23 April, 2026

[Transcript Edit for length, clarity and flow]

Waj Ali: I had an excellent chat with my friend and fellow nerd avenger Mary Trump about the debacle that is Donald’s Iraq war, our tanking economy, Donald’s collapsing poll numbers, and Waj’s epic takedown of a religious bigot.

Waj Ali: On Monday I returned to Piers Morgan after a long hiatus. It was supposed to be me, Tim Miller, Pastor Doug Wilson, and Michael Knowles. Michael Knowles is Temu Ben Shapiro, but he had technical difficulties. Honestly, if I were him, I’d have technical difficulties too because it’s very hard to defend this failed war. That’s usually his role—being a mouthpiece for MAGA.

So it ended up being Doug Wilson, Tim Miller, and me. We discussed the war, Donald’s favorability ratings, and Donald mocking the Pope—the first American Pope and one of the most popular figures in the country right now. Donald treats the Pope like Batman because he wears a costume and has a Popemobile, as if that means he should be fighting crime.

Then Doug Wilson comes into the picture. He’s a pastor and the spiritual mentor of Pete Hegseth, the Secretary of Defense. As we’ve discussed, Hegseth is completely unqualified, with a disturbing history of abusing women and struggling with alcoholism. He’s essentially a cosplay crusader with tattoos tied to white Christian nationalism.

Hegseth invited Doug Wilson to the Pentagon to lead prayers. So who is Doug Wilson? He openly rejects the separation of church and state. He promotes Christian dominionism. He has written that American slavery was sanctioned by the Bible and wasn’t that bad—that it was mutually beneficial between enslaved people and enslavers. He mocks women and believes they should be second-class citizens, subordinate to men. He has even suggested repealing the 19th Amendment.

This is someone who justifies violence in pursuit of white supremacy and Christian domination. And yet, instead of distancing from him, Hegseth amplifies him. After CNN aired a segment exposing Wilson’s views, Hegseth shared it proudly, saying “all of Christ for all of life,” then invited him to the Pentagon.

So now we have Americans dying in a war led by someone taking guidance from a man who rejects democracy, supports slavery, and wants to roll back women’s rights to the 19th century—or earlier.

Mary Trump: At least.

Waj Ali: Exactly. So I confronted him. Honestly, it felt like I was possessed—in the Blues Brothers sense, on a mission from God. He’s not used to being challenged. He operates in safe spaces where no one pushes back.

At one point, he said, “We should respect religious leaders,” after we discussed Donald mocking the Pope. That gave me an opening. People later asked if I planned it. I didn’t. It was just preparation meeting opportunity. I’ve been following Hegseth and Wilson for over a year.

I used facts. And I used the Bible.

Mary Trump: Which you probably know better than he does.

Waj Ali: They treat Jesus like a mascot. They’ve hijacked him—duct-taped his mouth, slung an AR-15 over his shoulder, and turned the cross into a prop. It’s all about white supremacy.

As you’ve written in The Reckoning, people used religion to justify slavery, segregation

Mary Trump: And lynching.

Waj Ali: Exactly. They claimed divine approval for atrocities. And now you see the same pattern. This isn’t fringe anymore. This is the Secretary of Defense influencing policy based on extremist theology, trying to create conditions for the “end times.”

These Christian Zionists believe controlling Jerusalem will trigger the second coming. So they’re shaping policy to fulfill that narrative, regardless of consequences.

Mary Trump: We’ve been warning about this for a long time. What’s striking is how automatically religious figures are given respect without earning it. That creates cover for abuse.

And this isn’t just Hegseth. White supremacy and Christian nationalism are now core to the Republican Party. We’ve seen military leaders framing conflicts as religious wars. Over 200 complaints were filed by service members about that.

Religion is being used to justify atrocities. So how do we change the conversation? Why do Democrats keep pulling punches instead of confronting this directly?

Waj Ali: First, we have to name it. Democrats and institutions avoid saying “white Christian nationalism” because they don’t want to offend people. So they use vague terms like “religious nationalism.”

That’s a mistake. We’ve spent years refusing to call things what they are—racism, misogyny, fascism. Meanwhile, the real threat goes unnamed.

We need to say it clearly: this is white Christian nationalism. And also clarify that it doesn’t represent all Christians or all white people.

Second, we need to engage religion differently. Religion isn’t going away. America is still deeply religious. The right understands this and uses religious language effectively—even hypocritically.

The left has ceded that ground. We shouldn’t.

When I challenged Wilson, I used religious language. I used scripture. That’s why it resonated. They’re not used to being challenged on their own terms.

If you reclaim that language—if you use Jesus and the Bible to promote justice—they have no answer.

Look at MLK. His movement was rooted in faith. Gandhi, Romero—same thing. Religion can be a force for justice if used correctly.

Mary Trump: I’m conflicted about that. On one hand, it’s effective. On the other, we’re supposed to have separation of church and state.

Allowing religion into civic life got us here—Donald reading Bible verses in the Oval Office, creating positions for people like Paula White, who equates him with God.

We have prayer sessions in the Pentagon. A national prayer breakfast. Religion is embedded everywhere.

Why?

Waj Ali: I agree with you. Ideally, we maintain separation of church and state. But we also have to deal with reality. Religious communities exist and influence politics.

So the approach is to engage without imposing. Use moral language when appropriate, but don’t weaponize religion the way they do.

And recognize the double standard. If a Muslim were asked their favorite Quran verse, people would react differently. Meanwhile, Christian nationalism is normalized.

Ultimately, we need to expose that hypocrisy and move toward a system where all religions—or none—are treated equally.

Mary Trump: Let’s shift gears. The war is going terribly. The economy is struggling. Donald’s approval is around 33%.

Are we at an inflection point?

Waj Ali: I think so. Donald has betrayed his base on three major promises.

First, no forever wars. Now we’re in one. Americans are dying. Costs are rising.

Second, economic stability. We’re seeing shortages, rising prices, and global instability.

Third, transparency—like releasing the Epstein files—which he hasn’t done.

At the same time, global alliances are shifting. Countries are looking to China. The U.S. looks weaker.

Domestically, his base is shrinking. He’s losing independents, young voters, and even some Republicans. But here’s the key point: he’s acting like someone who won’t leave power peacefully.

He knows he could face legal consequences. So he’s doubling down. We saw what happened in 2020. It will be worse next time.

Mary Trump: Exactly. We cannot assume normal processes will hold. There was no peaceful transfer of power last time.

We need to face reality. The system is not functioning the way it used to.

Yes, people are paying attention now because they’re personally affected—gas prices, inflation—but the underlying issues are much deeper.

We need a plan to ensure we never get this close to authoritarianism again.

Waj Ali: And part of that conversation needs to include the “broligarchy”—tech billionaires like Elon Musk and Peter Thiel.

They’re investing heavily in politics to avoid regulation and shape the system in their favor. We’re talking hundreds of millions of dollars influencing elections, including Democrats.

If politicians are funded by these interests, can we trust them to enact real change. That’s a critical question moving forward.

Mary Trump: Absolutely. And the scale of that money is staggering.

We’ll have to leave it there, but clearly, there’s much more to discuss. Before we go, please be a better capitalist.

Waj Ali: I’ve got a Substack—The Left Hook. Everything is free, but there’s a discounted subscription if you can support.

Mary Trump: Thank you, Waj. And thank you to everyone watching. Check out The Left Hook and The Good in Us. Please like, share, and subscribe to Mary Trump Media.