People Are Hungry for Real Leaders

In Conversation with Dean Obeidallah

[Transcript edited for clarity, flow and length]

Mary Trump: I spoke with my friend and fellow Nerd Avenger, Dean Obeidallah, and we asked an important question: What does it take to get an abusive Republican to drop out of a race? Looking at you, Max Miller. We also talked about whether Donald has finally found his Roy Cohn in Todd Blanche and how we’re both feeling about the upcoming midterm elections. Check it out.

---

Dean Obeidallah: Mary, it’s always great to have you here. Thanks so much for joining me.

Mary Trump: Dean, it’s always a pleasure. As always, though, I wish it were under different circumstances because, honestly, what in the world is happening? I don’t even know where to begin. There’s so much going on, and most of it seems bad, although there have been a few bright spots in the election results, which I know we’re going to talk about.

Dean Obeidallah: We definitely are. For some people those election results are a bright spot. For others, apparently they’re the end of civilization. I’m not even talking about Tommy Tuberville calling Abdul El Sayed a terrorist in writing because, frankly, that’s exactly who Tommy Tuberville is.

Let’s start with the positive news. Michigan offered voters two very different visions for the Democratic Party. It ended up being much closer than the polling suggested, but Abdul El Sayed ran on Medicare for All, getting big money out of politics, raising taxes on the wealthy, and abolishing ICE. Haley Stevens took a very different approach. She opposed Medicare for All, focused on restoring Affordable Care Act subsidies, avoided talking about raising taxes on the wealthy, and didn’t embrace getting big money out of politics.

Abdul’s positions align remarkably well with Democratic voters. Depending on the issue, polling shows support ranging from roughly seventy five to ninety percent. Even so, the race remained extremely close because so much outside money poured into it.

Do you think there’s a lesson here? Is there something establishment Democrats, particularly the more corporate wing of the party, should be learning from what happened in Michigan?

Mary Trump: First and foremost, the people of Michigan made their decision.

That means it is now the responsibility of establishment Democrats to rally behind the Democratic nominee. Period. End of story. Obviously, if something extraordinary comes to light about a candidate, that’s a different conversation. But simply objecting because you disagree with someone’s policy platform isn’t good enough.

I thought Abdul El Sayed ran an excellent campaign. The race was extremely competitive, which tells me Michigan voters took the decision seriously before making their choice. What I found especially encouraging was watching not only the people who endorsed Haley Stevens quickly unite behind Abdul El Sayed, but seeing Haley Stevens herself do the same. Mallory McMorrow, who had exited the race earlier, also endorsed him. That’s exactly how the process should work.

I think establishment Democrats should treat Abdul El Sayed’s victory the same way they should have treated Zohran Mamdani’s victory and the success of other progressives and democratic socialists. These results should be a wake up call. Instead of attacking progressives, they ought to spend some time asking why progressive messaging resonates so strongly with so many voters.

The Democratic Party has always been, and should remain, a broad coalition. There should be room for a wide range of ideas about how to move the country forward. What works politically in Michigan may not be exactly what works in Virginia or New York City, and that’s perfectly fine. There isn’t going to be a one size fits all approach.

Ultimately, though, I think voters are focused on something even more fundamental than ideology. They’re asking who actually understands what’s at stake in this moment and who has a serious plan for responding to it. Too many establishment Democrats don’t seem to understand the magnitude of the threat we’re facing, and instead of confronting that threat, they continue spending their energy attacking progressives and democratic socialists.

That is absolutely the wrong fight.

Dean Obeidallah: When you look at the polling, it doesn’t really feel like there’s an ideological divide inside the Democratic Party. Ninety percent of Democrats support Medicare for All, according to the most recent Pew polling, yet you don’t hear establishment leaders like Chuck Schumer or Hakeem Jeffries championing it. Instead, they talk about restoring Affordable Care Act subsidies, which simply returns us to the status quo.

The problem is that the status quo wasn’t working for most Americans. Even when those subsidies existed, people were still struggling to make ends meet. At the same time, we are watching an oligarchy emerge right before our eyes. Elon Musk is on the verge of becoming the world’s first trillionaire, while ordinary Americans can’t afford housing, healthcare, or groceries.

Raising taxes on the wealthiest Americans polls extraordinarily well, not just among Democrats but among the public more broadly. Abdul El Sayed embraced those policies, while Haley Stevens did not. I don’t know what it’s going to take before establishment Democrats recognize what voters are actually asking for.

The larger problem, of course, is money in politics. Corporate Democrats receive enormous amounts of money from Wall Street, the pharmaceutical industry, and large corporations that have absolutely no interest in changing the current system. Until we confront the influence of big money in politics, we’re going to continue having the same conversation over and over again because the incentives never change.

Mary Trump: I completely agree.

We need to overturn Citizens United. There are organizations dedicated solely to accomplishing that goal because it’s become impossible to ignore the extent to which money has corrupted our political system. We also need to change the rules governing how elected officials are able to enrich themselves while supposedly serving the American people.

It’s indefensible that so many members of Congress leave office vastly wealthier than they were when they arrived. That wealth isn’t coming from their government salaries. It’s coming from somewhere else, and that reality should concern every American.

Because incumbents and the political establishment benefit from the existing system, they have very little incentive to change it. As a result, too many elected officials stop answering to the people who sent them to Washington and instead answer to the powerful interests financing their campaigns. Unfortunately, that includes some Democrats as well.

To me, this isn’t primarily an ideological debate. It’s about the kind of leadership people are hungry for right now. Americans want leaders who are willing to fight corruption, confront oligarchy, demand accountability for the extraordinary abuses committed by this regime, and, perhaps most importantly, understand what public service is actually supposed to mean.

Those are the kinds of public servants people are looking for.

For those of us living in what some Republicans jokingly call the “socialist hellscape” of New York, we’re actually seeing what competent public service looks like. Rather than attacking people trying to govern effectively, establishment Democrats ought to learn from what’s working instead of treating progressives as the enemy.

Dean Obeidallah: I had just been watching James Talarico speak before we started recording, and nobody is accusing him of being a democratic socialist. Republicans, of course, call all of us socialists and communists, but establishment Democrats don’t seem bothered by his message because he’s simply describing reality.

He talks openly about how the system is rigged, how billionaires continue getting richer while ordinary Americans struggle to afford gasoline or groceries. He points out that Mark Zuckerberg can fuel helicopters sitting on top of his megayacht while millions of Americans are working multiple jobs just to survive.

That’s essentially the same message Bernie Sanders has been delivering for years.

The reason it resonates is because people know it’s true.

I honestly don’t think the Democratic Party has an identity crisis. I think it has a leadership crisis. Democratic voters overwhelmingly support Medicare for All, getting big money out of politics, raising taxes on the wealthy, expanding childcare, and creating an economy that works for working people instead of billionaires.

If you oppose all of those things, I genuinely wonder why you’re calling yourself a Democrat because those positions increasingly reflect where Democratic voters actually are.

What I don’t understand is why some corporate Democrats remain so committed to defending a status quo that clearly isn’t serving the people they’re supposed to represent. Incremental change simply isn’t enough anymore.

Mary Trump: I don’t understand it either.

I don’t understand why anyone opposes raising the federal minimum wage, which has remained stuck at $7.25 an hour for far too long. That’s grotesque. Members of Congress receive regular pay increases. Ordinary Americans deserve the opportunity to earn a living wage as well.

I’m not entirely sure what establishment Democrats think they’re preserving or why they believe the status quo is working for anyone other than themselves.

What I also struggle to understand is why so many Democratic senators continue placing collegiality above their responsibility to the people who elected them. That tells me they still haven’t fully grasped what the Republican Party has become.

This is no longer a political party interested in governing. It is not a party Democrats should be trying to accommodate or normalize.

When I watched some Democrats attempt to sanitize Lindsey Graham’s record after his death, it struck me as making common cause with fascists. The same is true when Democrats vote to confirm nominees they know will continue dismantling democratic institutions.

It’s inexplicable to me.

I think it reflects just how insulated many establishment politicians have become from the reality the rest of the country is living through.

That’s one more reason I believe we need to continue electing candidates who actually understand what’s happening. Different candidates will succeed in different parts of the country, and that’s perfectly appropriate. Zohran Mamdani isn’t going to win in a deep red district in Virginia, just as a moderate Democrat won’t necessarily win in New York City.

That’s not the point.

The point is that establishment Democrats who spend their time attacking progressives and democratic socialists instead of confronting the fascists currently running the government are fundamentally misunderstanding the moment.

Primary them all.

Dean Obeidallah: I agree completely. A moderate Democrat isn’t going to win in a deep red district any more than a progressive is. Those districts are what they are. Likewise, Republicans aren’t going to win in deep blue districts. That’s simply the reality of American politics.

Let’s shift gears for a moment and talk about something a little lighter before we come back to the heavier subjects.

Donald Trump appears to have a new hairstyle. If people haven’t seen the photographs yet, they should. His hair looked completely different during his appearance in Nevada. People have been debating whether it’s a wig, whether it’s some new styling technique, or something else entirely. Whatever it is, it’s certainly gotten people’s attention.

Knowing what you know about Donald, do you think he’s really that vain? Do you think he saw the photographs of himself with the wind blowing his hair around and decided he needed an entirely new look?

Mary Trump: As you know, I generally avoid making ad hominem attacks, so I’m not particularly interested in criticizing the way somebody looks. I honestly don’t care.

That said, my immediate thought was that he looked like Hermey the Elf from Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer. That was genuinely my first reaction.

What interested me much more, though, was how much it reminded me of my grandfather. He had a receding hairline beginning in his teenage years and remained self conscious about it throughout his life. He wasn’t bald. He simply had a receding hairline, and even into his eighties he still had a reasonable amount of hair.

Then, after Alzheimer’s disease began taking hold, something changed. Suddenly he became obsessed with having more hair and purchased an extraordinarily ill fitting toupee.

The rest of my family, especially Donald, found it deeply embarrassing. My grandfather would dye the toupee and then dye his mustache to match. Unfortunately, he would leave the dye on far too long, so his mustache would often turn a bright magenta color.

Eventually, the family became so embarrassed that they simply stopped bringing him out in public.

Now we’re watching Donald become intensely preoccupied with his own hair in much the same way his father did. I don’t know whether it was actually a wig or something else entirely. I have no idea. But it certainly reminded me of my grandfather in a way I hadn’t expected.

Dean Obeidallah: You mentioned the last time we talked that your grandfather began showing noticeable signs of dementia at about the same age Donald is now. I don’t know whether that’s connected, but it certainly crossed my mind when I saw the photographs.

I promised everyone one lighter topic before returning to the serious issues, so thank you for indulging me.

Let’s talk about Congressman Max Miller because this story deserves much more attention than it’s receiving.

Donald Trump was asked about the allegations against Max Miller and his response was astonishing. Rather than expressing sympathy for Miller’s former wife or the child involved, Donald said, “I hope he’s able to work it out. I feel badly for him.”

For him.

Not for the alleged victims.

For Max Miller.

Sadly, this seems entirely consistent with Donald’s lifelong pattern of siding with powerful men instead of the women and children harmed by their actions.

What was your reaction when you heard him say that?

Mary Trump: I was talking with Katie Phang about this earlier today, and one thing we agreed on is that, while we shouldn’t be surprised anymore, we should never lose our ability to be shocked.

Donald has been a misogynist his entire life.

Given that he’s an adjudicated rapist and has been credibly accused by more than twenty women of sexual harassment, sexual assault, and worse, it should surprise absolutely no one that he would instinctively side with a man accused of abusing women and children.

What troubles me even more, though, is that this isn’t an isolated incident. It reflects the broader culture of the entire Trump regime.

At precisely the same time, Todd Blanche is on the verge of becoming Attorney General of the United States while doing everything within his power to protect individuals connected to Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. We’ve watched him treat victims with extraordinary contempt, work to make Ghislaine Maxwell’s circumstances easier, and repeatedly demonstrate that protecting powerful men matters more to him than protecting victims.

He’s also made it abundantly clear that he intends to use the power of the Department of Justice to continue attacking reproductive rights and undermining women’s bodily autonomy.

Taken together, it paints a very disturbing picture.

The misogyny isn’t limited to Donald Trump.

It’s embedded throughout the administration.

That’s why, although Donald’s comments about Max Miller weren’t surprising, they were still profoundly disturbing.

It’s also worth noting that while Donald has encouraged Max Miller to step aside, he has never demanded that he do so. As far as I’m aware, the only prominent Republican who has forcefully called for Miller’s resignation is his father in law, Senator Bernie Moreno, whose own daughter and grandchild were directly affected by Miller’s alleged abuse.

Compare that with what happened in the Graham Platner situation. Democrats may not have responded immediately, but once the facts became clear they were united in saying he needed to step aside.

We’re not seeing anything close to that level of accountability from Republicans.

I think that tells us a great deal about the condition of the Republican Party today.

Mary Trump on why Donald’s wig matters!