By now I’m sure you’re all aware of the recent controversy surrounding Spotify and Joe Rogan and his spreading of COVID disinformation. I’ve written about it here.
Cap deleted her Spotify account
I also talked about it on the opening of my latest podcast episode. Here’s an excerpt:
“[W]hat’s the difference between Spotify giving a platform to [Joe] Rogan as opposed to iTunes offering podcasts by the likes of Ben Shapiro, Dan Bongino, and Steve Bannon? For starters, Spotify is paying Rogan in excess of $100 million. Second, time after time Rogan has broken the company’s own policy about misinformation.
A bigger question is, ‘Why does Spotify not think that Rogan’s blatant racism is enough of a reason to get rid of his show?’”
You can watch the entire episode, which includes an excellent conversation with my friend, Sirius XM host, columnist, and comedian Dean Obeidallah, on YouTube or listen to it here.
My question for you this week is this: What do you think about musicians and podcasters removing their material from Spotify? Do you agree that it’s a stand worth taking? Do you think there are better ways to make a point? Do you disagree with it entirely and if so why?
Good for you -- and Cap! I do appreciate musicians and podcasters removing their material from Spotify, or whatever platform where their philosophies and politics are at odds. Everyone should be able to control their work as much as legally possible. In a way it is democracy in action -- pro-choice at its best.
It is absolutely right and proper for any artist to remove THEIR intellectual property from any platform that supports views contrary to their own. Removing their property is not censorship nor does it resemble so-called cancel culture. It is simply a way for the artist to express their values in a real and tangible way. Good on them! 👍👏👏👏
I support Mary, musicians & podcasters who have removed their material from Spotify. I quit using Spotify. I'm also closing my other contaminated affiliations.
It 's definitely worth taking a stand . The musicians and podcasters who have removed their material are absolutely doing the right thing . To give a platform to someone like Joe Rogan, who spouts misinformation about a deadly virus is unconscionable. Many people listen to him and follow his " advice " at the risk of their own lives . Joe Rogan is not a doctor or scientist . He a racist , a conspiracy theorist, and a danger to others .
Its not very different from me walking out of a room when someone expresses wildly racists, homophobic, misogynistic, etc., ideas. We can stay or we can go. These musicians, like all of us, make choices. I respect their choice. At least they have a moral compass.
Freedom of speech does not equal freedom of reach. Platforms that provide the reach, have a public duty to guard public heath and safety. With all platforms failing at this, it's up to the people who use their platforms. I canceled my Spotify, and encouraged my family and friends to do the same. They did.
No one has the 'right' to say and do anything they want-without consequences. Spotify made their choice, and chose again when they don't enforce their own rules.
Artists are making their choice. It's sad to see so few at the exit door. Another marker in history where we have lost the ability to do the right thing, even when it is not convenient.
The FCC has a new commissioner: Brendan Carr. Why don't we get a campaign going to ask him to do the job the FCC is meant to do: https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/broadcasting-false-information--I don't have much of a twitter following (@KarenKMmonroy) but I'd be happy to bang the drum!
I believe we have reached such a critical time in our country that everyone who has a voice needs to stand up to the liars and their lies and those who give them a voice. The time for wait and see is over. We need to be proactive in fighting for the truth and our democracy. Those with a larger voice, thank you for taking a stand. Those with smaller voices can cancel subscriptions. We must all do whatever we can
Anyone who cares about democracy should evaluate every company they interact with, including Spotify. Our voices, our dollars, our votes—these are the best weapons we have. It’s way past time to use them.
I greatly appreciate artists removing their work from Spotify. In the current climate, I'm concerned that people in general seem to be oblivious about the fascism that is creeping into our culture, ready to take advantage of complacency. So I see the Spotify situation as an opportunity to just DO something. Take a stand. Make a statement. Say, ENOUGH! Even if it's just in a somewhat small way. I do believe that these actions matter and that corporations need to wake up. I canceled my Spotify account and use Amazon Prime for music now, though I can't stand Bezos. It's the fact that Joe Rogan is just basically spewing not only evil, but deadly evil. When do we ever say that enough is enough?? I hope that more people step up and take a stand.
I am grateful for those who standing up. Especially grateful to India Arie for broadening the discussion beyond covid misinformation (yes, important), to include blatant racism.
I respect these artists for standing by their principles. I don't know that it will matter in the end, though, because Spotify makes a ton of money off of Rogan's podcast. So, I don't see the streaming service backing down on this.
At this point, I would respectfully submit that pretty much everyone knows who and what Joe Rogan is. You either love him or you hate him, and the way I see it, Spotify is betting that the cost of keeping him will not be outweighed by losing some content providers.
I hope that I'm wrong, though, because I want your more optimistic take on things to be right.
I quit using Facebook for the same reason. Misinformation abounds there and helps to warp the good sense of previously logical people. Absolutely any solo artist or group should feel no qualm about removing their catalogs from services such as Spotify that promote Misinformation in favor of a fat bottom line on their balance sheet.
Facebook: 'Where seldom is heard an encouraging word, and the trolls are not silent all day.' Very nearly a worthless platform.
I was kicked off in 2014 but came back three years ago to study it. It's the new 'genie let out of the lamp'. Misinformation will be our demise as we can already see. I do like the cat groups I belong to though! (They're harmless, nobody fights!) :)
Hi Mary! I’ve been so busy I've been unable to reply until now. I hope you don’t mind a late (and long) comment from an old slowpoke, especially after you’ve already moved on to other topics. The fact is, I’m really concerned about the impact social media plays in our lives. I’m not sure people realize how big a problem it is.
I agree with you 100% that Facebook is the most dangerous of all the social media platforms (although I’m sure others aren’t much better.) Given your profession, I wonder if you have a deeper perspective than most. Do you think Facebook is ‘the most dangerous’ in the obvious way -- how it pushes questionable information in return for greater advertising revenue? Or because it affects people in psychological ways -- my layperson’s opinion? I see it both ways.
I believe social media in general is an enormous problem facing our country today, and I know many folks would disagree. It’s understandable to think other big problems making the news would be far more worrisome than what’s happening on Facebook. But what’s pushed on Facebook alters viewpoints, and viewpoints ultimately determine who we choose for leaders. With about 71% of USA’s population regularly using Facebook, the viewpoints which arise through immersion in Facebook are matters of great concern, as they can obviously swing elections.
Then there’s the other way I see it as dangerous.
In 2014, I got kicked off Facebook for losing my cool and telling a Republican lady she was an idiot. (Yep, just ‘idiot’ all by itself, with no F-bomb attached.) The lady was a ‘Birther’ and was hard-pushing the lie that Barack Obama wasn’t a US Citizen and was therefore ineligible to be POTUS. I had my fill of her and called her an idiot. Evidently, she went through all the proper channels to report me, which resulted in a three-day suspension. Although it felt horrible when I saw my account locked, It was the best thing to ever happen to me.
At first, I felt horribly ‘disconnected’ from my world, and I didn’t even know what to do when my phone was in my hands. I began to calm down though, and on the third day, my mood really started to change for the better. I was relaxed. I found myself not missing or caring about anything that was going on Facebook. I didn’t care what anyone said or what anyone thought of the last things I’d posted. I didn’t miss the fighting and the name-calling and it was so peaceful to not have my phone pinging all the time. I felt liberated. I decided to leave Facebook completely and I did not miss it.
We all know our politics took a major change in 2016. After much reflection, I returned to Facebook in 2018 after swearing I would never come back. I felt irresponsible by not being as politically engaged as I was in the Obama years, and I could tell from the news what was happening on social media platforms (especially Twitter.) I returned because I wanted to understand what was happening on the only platform I was familiar with. I’d heard it had grown so much worse after I’d left. I wanted to be part of the counter-message to all the lies and misinformation that was cutting our country in half, and so for the last three years I’ve done battle as-needed with MAGA, Anti-Vax and Anti-Science trolls. I don’t let the online bickering bother me now as I used to, but I’m still appalled at how conservative voters now act as a result of Donald Trump's term in office. It’s truly a discouraging platform. If we survive the next two elections with our democracy intact, I’ll leave Facebook again and I’ll never return. To me there’s almost nothing good about it.
Coming back was a good call in one important sense: I gained a more realistic picture of how people are. I used to believe in the inherent goodness of people but I now see how naïve I was. Facebook is SO toxic. Facebook doesn’t care about the well-being of its users, at least not if it means losing a single advertising dollar. The users can be horrible, but in some respects it’s the indifferent culture of Facebook which makes them that way. My guess is that a huge number of users wish they’d never signed-up in the first place, yet they can’t tear themselves away from it no matter how hard they try. I suspect Facebook is more addictive to some people than crack cocaine. I know I may never have left if I hadn’t been suspended for three days and given a chance to remember what life without Facebook was like. (‘FOMO’, or ‘Fear Of Missing Out’ is what kept me checking my phone all day long.)
I was also caught up in posting only things I thought my friends would ‘Like’. I now see that so many people carefully craft images of their lives to put on display to their ‘Friends’ on Facebook, and before they realize what’s happening, they start to live their lives for online approval… from people who couldn’t care less about them. Very few people ever worry about being courteous or even civil on Facebook. It often turns into a game to belittle newbies asking innocent questions. With no real accountability to worry about on Facebook, people are remorseless about saying the most hurtful things to other users. I know not everyone has these kinds of experiences. (My wife is a good example, coordinating her Project Linus chapters with help from a Facebook page.) So many others seem to lose parts of themselves in the experience though. It’s just a horrible place for so many people. There’s no reason why it should be so popular, except that Facebook is carefully designed to pull a person in then never let them go. I sometimes wonder how Mark Zuckerberg can sleep at night (but then I always remember: He’s a billionaire because of it.)
I went into Facebook initially because it seemed like it would be fun, and it was at first. After a while though, I suddenly realized I was spending huge amounts of my time glued to a screen, doing nothing but scrolling, liking, sharing and arguing. Along the way, I’d completely forgotten how nice it was to not know every aspect of someone’s life, revealed online for everyone to inspect, ‘Like’, judge or ridicule. I had to quit Facebook to see all this. I had to leave Facebook completely to understand how bad it was making me feel, as it was such a gradual descent that I never noticed what was happening. We were much happier with the privacy we once had. In our online world, we oldsters who knew it before have forgotten what it was like. Younger people, raised into the online world, have known nothing but.
Please forgive the long comment Mary! No matter how much I try, I’m just never able to keep it short when I start talking about Facebook... I really despise it that much. I’m as sincere as I am wordy about it, at least.
As a kid growing up in the 1970’s, I once worried we’d all perish in a nuclear holocaust. I can now see we don’t need missiles to destroy ourselves. All we need is misinformation and billions of people to believe it. That’s why I think social media is an enormous problem today.
Take Care and thanks for what you do. I tell my wife often how courageous you are for the stand you’ve taken. It’s deeply appreciated!
I believe this is precisely the way artists can use their contacts with people around the world for good. They did the right thing and I hope more will remove their music too.
If nothing else, there is value in musicians, et al., drawing attention to the unbelievable amount of $ paid out by Spotify to certain individuals and how little they pay for musician’s songs. Certainly highlighting Rogan’s racist attitude and his misinformation campaign is also a plus.
FIRST, I applaud the artists that have removed their music from Spotify. Second, I admonish Spotify for continuing to support Rogan's vaccine/mandate falsehoods.
No amount of money is worth paying a podcaster to spread misinformation.
The mental trauma in of itself will be at the forefront for decades to come. This serial servitude to TFG our leaders money , power , the anti vaccine benefits no one . The erosion of civility across this country is smoldering. This is man made and it is our right to fight back , we will win . I am hopeful, there’s more of us who believe in democracy !
I stand with you Mary and Cap . To all the artist and podcasters thank you for speaking truth to power
I absolutely support musicians and podcasters removing their content from Spotify because it demonstrates what values they hold. I'm so glad you and other folks have taken this step because it's the best way to show the world how you feel about the situation.
Important reminder that Rogan is an anti-LGBTQ and especially anti-trans bigot too. There was no valid reason for Spotify to give him $100 million knowing where he stood on many social issues.
I deleted my Spotify app (never had a premium subscription) to add to the chorus of others doing the same.
You're very welcome and yes those listener numbers are alarming. Also, your Cap, Linden, Sebastian and Nemo (I want to see more of her) pictures have brought me so much joy. Thank you so very much for sharing them with us.
I agree with the many excellent points already made. I believe the removal of material is a stand worth taking, and it did make a dent and got Spotify's attention. They had a stock drop (they claim it was unrelated but not so sure about that), their website was overwhelmed from all the customer cancellations, they were forced to issue statements, and they established policies that they should've had in the first place. Will their stock recover? Probably, especially if more artists/podcasters don't continue to join, which will be unfortunate. But that doesn't make their proliferation of Joe Rogan ok. Corporate social responsibility will never really take root unless it is made to by others. And if now isn't the time to take a stand, especially against deadly misinformation, racism, and anti-democracy sentiment, then I don't know when it is.
Setting all of this aside, there's also just an issue of personal integrity and what choices people make and can live with in their own lives. While that is, of course, a subjective notion, it is still reassuring and refreshing to see what personal integrity means to those artists and podcasters who left.
I am grateful to the musicians and artists who are removing their works from Spotify. They are speaking up for truth and integrity, and fighting against hatred and misinformation.
I’ve always felt that any musician (or podcaster) with a large following is aware he or she has an unusual opportunity to make a strong statement. I respect those that remove their material in support of causes I deeply believe in because it attracts closer attention to those causes. In the case of Neil Young, Joni Mitchell and others leaving Spotify because of Joe Rogan’s racist and false content, it’s attracted much attention lately, and in my view, that’s wonderful.
However, let’s suppose Joe Rogan was removed from Spotify for spreading lies and misinformation, and it was Ted Nugent who was removing his music in protest. How would I react?
I’d smirk and say, “Don’t let the door hit you in the ass Ted.”
My feeling is that musicians and podcasters who remove their material in protest would earn respect and praise from those in agreement, but only derision from those who aren’t. It’s our duty to ourselves to reflect and decide which causes merit our support.
I do agree it’s a stand worth taking. I’d do it myself if I were on Spotify, in the only way I can – by writing an email (that nobody at Spotify would ever read) explaining why I’m no longer listening to their music. It might give me a warm feeling after I hit ‘send’, but it would only last for about a minute. End-users like me don’t make a heck of a lot of difference, even if our intentions are admirable. If a Neil Young removes his material, or a Joni Mitchel or a Mary Trump, it resonates. Many people start to take notice and dialogues begin. It makes the news. If the dialogues grow louder, things can change. It’s worth doing!
There may be better ways to make a point, but not every way is available to every person in the world. A person can only do what’s within their means to do. Even at the smallest level though, it’s nice to see people who sacrifice some part of themselves in favor of some greater good.
I don’t disagree at all with people trying to do something to make a difference… in this case, removing their content from a platform that values extreme profit over basic truth, when so much is at stake.
Thanks for this, Mary. History has shown that protests by musicians is often effective. In this case, I believe it will be as well. That Spotify may use the revenue generated by the songs of Joni and Neil et al, to fund the insane paycheque of Rogan, may be the reason for the musicians’ decision, more so than his spreading of lies. Goodness knows musicians have it hard enough these days if they are hoping to earn a decent residual payment from these streaming services. Personally, I will give a shout out to Bandcamp who provides the musicians proper compensation to distribute the music. You know, like the good old days of buying an album or CD while knowing the musician will be duly compensated.
The Trumpers would have you believe it’s a matter of free speech being infringed. It’s not. Spotify is a business and they can operate however they want as long as it’s not breaking any law. Just like Neil’s music is his business and so on. Since I worked for Apple several years I never felt the need to give Spotify any of my money. As a customer in a capitalistic country, that’s my right.
What I’m waiting to find out is how Fox entertainment is going to handle the Rudy Giuliani debacle with Masked Singer. Kudos to Robin Thicke and Ken Jong!!!
Your guess is as good as or better than mine! The show’s producers really screwed the pooch with that! I thought it was a stretch to have Sarah Palin on, but Rudy? Definitely tone deaf to the feelings of millions of viewers.
I do not think there is another way to demonstrate to Spotify how artists and podcasters feel about Joe Rogan and Covid misinformation than to remove their music and podcasts from Spotify, which I totally agree with. It would help if investors took a stand against the platform, too, but, for some reason, I do not think it will last long.
As A Technician DJ engineer I've seen all my life the power of entertainment and celebrity artists have on The Overall Political Events that need addressing, Woodstock To The Concert For Bangladesh to Live Aid To Lolapalooza to Lilith Fair, What is really getting under my skin lately is because "Covid" restricts public performance and promotion we are losing fundraising opps to the very nature of what it means to stop spread of covid, These artists standing up to Spotify are heroic and patriotic, Joe Rogan Is An Ass-Wipe Publicized Period, Mary Your Dean Obedallah Interview was awesome, the two of you prompted the issues at hand together beautifully, I THINK Msnbc and CNN are both missing out, not grabbing your show for broadcast 12 to 1am, you use a few curses is why the show could logically place there, I described to Twitter that YOU COULD literally be the Antithesis to Tucker Carlson we all need, regardless of time slot, Your Loyal Fan John Pillin
Dean is so fantastic. When he had his old show on another SiriusXM channel (I've forgotten the name) I called in the day after the 2016 election so upset. I broke down and cried on his show. Ever since then we've stayed in touch and I've never stopped calling into his show. I'm so glad you had him on your podcast and I love being able to watch it on YouTube.
I think that it is the right thing to do! If a person or organization blatantly doesn't represent your values, you disassociate from this person or organization! Thank you for joining the musicians and artists getting off of Spotify! Cap, I cancelled my account too! Economic decisions can make a powerful impact! We vote with our ballots, our purchases, our apps, our feet!
I'm so glad you mentioned the blatant racism. I find that to be worse than misinformation about anything. I cancelled 3 premium Spotify accounts. I'm still fuming about Rogan's recent show where two privileged White men decide there's no such thing as Black people.
Hate speech shouldn't be covered or allowed. Anything that costs platforms money is fair game ( customer cancellations, artists and podcasters removing their work, lawsuits, etc) because that's the only thing they understand. And that is a sad commentary on our corporate culture. I'd like to see some artists set up a cooperative service platform. Protesting is ALWAYS a good idea.
BTW Eyes on Russian aggression NOW. The ground is frozen and Olympics seem to rev up Putin's aggression. He moved on Crimea during and after winter Olympics.
A stand worth taking as Cap and her Owner did! The issue here is that Spotify is paying Rogan with money from the musicians’ work. So, they have every right NOT to have their work used in this way.
Absolutely! I appreciate artist removing their work from a platform that disseminates deadly misinformation. It is cancel culture at its very finest. It’s not even a free speech issue, not when Spotify PAYS to have an individual spout harmful information.
We must take back the language, too. Instead of letting trumpsters annoy us by saying WE are canceling their culture, we must own it. Yes! We ARE canceling the evil they sprout. Yes, we ARE canceling the confederacy which lost the war. Yes, we ARE canceling trumpism which almost lost our democracy. Yes, we ARE canceling racism and misogyny.
1. A schlock jock is NOT worth 100 mill of anyone's dosh. 2. I love that musicians ARE walking away from a platform like Spotify. They're putting their beliefs and ethics out there in public and the consequences for them will be a whole army of new fans looking for their music on YouTube and enjoying the experience of quality music - not someone just talking in time to an electronic box. 3. I am amazed that Rogan is given air time anywhere with his particularly loathsome brand of racism. I've said it before and I'll say it again - in Australia he'd have been booted off air long ago for it. Here, when celebrities f*** up, they get the same as any man/woman in the street committing the same f*** up (Pardon my ****'s!) Take the recent case of No-Vax Jerkovic, for example...
I just can't see how anyone can actually listen to this bloke and say, 'Wow, he's really great, he's on the ball!" We just had the case here of Andrew O'Keefe - former lawyer, sometime actor and well-known television host - who is in a deep pile of s**t for several charges of domestic violence and assault on a woman. No-one's sticking up for him, that's a certainty. But people can stick up for Rogan? Makes me feel like I really am living in the Lucky Country, as the song says.
The appropriate course of action was for Spotify to adhere to the standards they claim to have established and end their relationship with Mr. Rogan. People removing their material from Spotify because Spotify did not take this course of action is commendable. They are upholding their own standards. However, take a moment to consider this. I have written a book, Remaking Democracy in America. People can purchase it on Amazon. Other people have written books on topics similar to mine that spout revolting opinions as egregious as what Mr. Rogan offers. People can purchase them on Amazon. Their books sell better. Should I remove my book from Amazon to protest them being allowed to use Amazon as a platform to sell books?
I think all your questions are good ones but I honestly believe it sad we/you have to ask.
I wonder if what Neil Young started will lead to more ppl in the industry to pull out that will make a dent in the campaign for good.
The disinformation and liars club needs to be called out for what it is do I am all in with hope it will help.
I do not recognize the whole racist movement as being acceptable nor should it be encouraged or tolerated so whatever we can do or say with
‘oh hell no’ to it all works for me.
We are devolving regressing and moving into dangerous territory if we don’t take that stand firmly to remember we don’t back down with what’s right. Critical thinking and the push to those ideas to better humanity with the knowing we all do better when we all do better seems to have been lost over time.
Am a boomer and seeing what and how things are going into the dark side is very upsetting if not terrifying.
I mean WTAF?
We are better than the Jan 6 crowd that stormed our democracy and apparently all believe outright lies like covid is a hoax etc
It’s insane
Freedom of speech yes but not when it’s intent is to harm us all or the world we need to share and protect in peace with more love in the light of truth
Ffs
I don’t have all the answers but I know if we stick with truth facts science and stand up for what’s right we will do better together where we have strength in numbers 🤞🏻
Consumers and producers have a right to self-determination. I imagine a group of men, concerned about profits, who set the bar low for other men. As a woman I have spent my life encountering these systems of white male privilege that benefited men around me by expecting so little of them.
Whenever possible, it is good that people like Neil Young and many that followed, were able to take a stand against a profit making organization that has such a wide audience, to be put in their place for spreading lies and misinformation. I am grateful for those all brave ones that did what was right even it might cost them financially. Thank you to all.
I don't know if there is any better way to make the point, but it's more than making a point as it's the work that represents the musicians and their careers as they wish them to be. Then there are contracts that would likely have to be felt with.
I totally agree with musicians removing their content from Spotify. Or for that matter anyone else associated with them. When will we establish boundaries for this kind of shit. We are way late showing up to resist this type of racism and anything related to it.
The artists (and podcasters) have the right to disassociate their work product from a platform that does not mesh with their ideals. Spotify has the right to keep Joe Rogan. Let’s see how it plays out financially. I support those who left Spotify.
I agree with the musicians. It feels like we’re back in the 60’s where it felt we made a difference by taking stands together, led by the cultural leaders, especially the bands. It is a great way to gain the attention of the masses and generate grass roots action. Already so many people have abandoned, boycotted, Spotify. We need to be ready to do the same with other platforms when challenged to run the platform with integrity.
I love your questions and how they stimulate discussion. I also love, love, love the photos of Linden, Sebastian and Cap who radiate wisdom of what is really important in life. Thank you
Yes, I think removing their music from Spotify is the ethical thing to do. But I will also add that I believe companies, like iTunes, that allow the likes of Ben Shapiro, Dan Bongino, and Steve Bannon do so for one of two reasons, 1. they agree with the lies or 2. for sensationalism. I question the ethics of any media that would host the likes of conspiracy theorists, known liars, or who spew anti-American rhetoric. 2015/16 the media/press constantly gave Donald free advertising by constantly covering his every word. Take this one step further; I was watching Rachel Maddow a couple of nights ago and this ad for Trump, spewing lies about Biden, etc., obviously a radical agenda by the radicals for Trump. MSNBC has, I believe, an ethical obligation to their viewers and their hosts to not have that kind of advertising on their programs.
Congratulations on moving off of Spotify! I think we need more ethicists on all of these platforms. We can build them to do good and to be good but, we choose not to. By you and others demanding better we will get there…slowly.
A detail I point out in regard to Neil Young and Joni Mitchell pulling their music from a platform that allows false information about vaccines to be spewed is that they each have a personal stake in the harm caused. They both suffered from childhood polio before the polio vaccine was available. Hearing lies about vaccines for another deadly disease hits closer to home for them. Neil Young has started several charities including Farm Aid with Willie Nelson. Reading about how much he has given to the world is so impressive. The racist liar Spotify pays and keeps employed shows where their values lie. No need for them.
Good for you -- and Cap! I do appreciate musicians and podcasters removing their material from Spotify, or whatever platform where their philosophies and politics are at odds. Everyone should be able to control their work as much as legally possible. In a way it is democracy in action -- pro-choice at its best.
I agree with SueJ’s comments.
It is absolutely right and proper for any artist to remove THEIR intellectual property from any platform that supports views contrary to their own. Removing their property is not censorship nor does it resemble so-called cancel culture. It is simply a way for the artist to express their values in a real and tangible way. Good on them! 👍👏👏👏
I support Mary, musicians & podcasters who have removed their material from Spotify. I quit using Spotify. I'm also closing my other contaminated affiliations.
It 's definitely worth taking a stand . The musicians and podcasters who have removed their material are absolutely doing the right thing . To give a platform to someone like Joe Rogan, who spouts misinformation about a deadly virus is unconscionable. Many people listen to him and follow his " advice " at the risk of their own lives . Joe Rogan is not a doctor or scientist . He a racist , a conspiracy theorist, and a danger to others .
Its not very different from me walking out of a room when someone expresses wildly racists, homophobic, misogynistic, etc., ideas. We can stay or we can go. These musicians, like all of us, make choices. I respect their choice. At least they have a moral compass.
Freedom of speech does not equal freedom of reach. Platforms that provide the reach, have a public duty to guard public heath and safety. With all platforms failing at this, it's up to the people who use their platforms. I canceled my Spotify, and encouraged my family and friends to do the same. They did.
No one has the 'right' to say and do anything they want-without consequences. Spotify made their choice, and chose again when they don't enforce their own rules.
Artists are making their choice. It's sad to see so few at the exit door. Another marker in history where we have lost the ability to do the right thing, even when it is not convenient.
Thanks for the conversation!
I like that "Freedom of speech does not equal freedom of reach." Well said.
What Tina Whitely said. Absolutely!
The FCC has a new commissioner: Brendan Carr. Why don't we get a campaign going to ask him to do the job the FCC is meant to do: https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/broadcasting-false-information--I don't have much of a twitter following (@KarenKMmonroy) but I'd be happy to bang the drum!
I believe we have reached such a critical time in our country that everyone who has a voice needs to stand up to the liars and their lies and those who give them a voice. The time for wait and see is over. We need to be proactive in fighting for the truth and our democracy. Those with a larger voice, thank you for taking a stand. Those with smaller voices can cancel subscriptions. We must all do whatever we can
Anyone who cares about democracy should evaluate every company they interact with, including Spotify. Our voices, our dollars, our votes—these are the best weapons we have. It’s way past time to use them.
I greatly appreciate artists removing their work from Spotify. In the current climate, I'm concerned that people in general seem to be oblivious about the fascism that is creeping into our culture, ready to take advantage of complacency. So I see the Spotify situation as an opportunity to just DO something. Take a stand. Make a statement. Say, ENOUGH! Even if it's just in a somewhat small way. I do believe that these actions matter and that corporations need to wake up. I canceled my Spotify account and use Amazon Prime for music now, though I can't stand Bezos. It's the fact that Joe Rogan is just basically spewing not only evil, but deadly evil. When do we ever say that enough is enough?? I hope that more people step up and take a stand.
I am grateful for those who standing up. Especially grateful to India Arie for broadening the discussion beyond covid misinformation (yes, important), to include blatant racism.
I respect these artists for standing by their principles. I don't know that it will matter in the end, though, because Spotify makes a ton of money off of Rogan's podcast. So, I don't see the streaming service backing down on this.
At this point, I would respectfully submit that pretty much everyone knows who and what Joe Rogan is. You either love him or you hate him, and the way I see it, Spotify is betting that the cost of keeping him will not be outweighed by losing some content providers.
I hope that I'm wrong, though, because I want your more optimistic take on things to be right.
I quit using Facebook for the same reason. Misinformation abounds there and helps to warp the good sense of previously logical people. Absolutely any solo artist or group should feel no qualm about removing their catalogs from services such as Spotify that promote Misinformation in favor of a fat bottom line on their balance sheet.
Facebook: 'Where seldom is heard an encouraging word, and the trolls are not silent all day.' Very nearly a worthless platform.
I was kicked off in 2014 but came back three years ago to study it. It's the new 'genie let out of the lamp'. Misinformation will be our demise as we can already see. I do like the cat groups I belong to though! (They're harmless, nobody fights!) :)
Hi Mary! I’ve been so busy I've been unable to reply until now. I hope you don’t mind a late (and long) comment from an old slowpoke, especially after you’ve already moved on to other topics. The fact is, I’m really concerned about the impact social media plays in our lives. I’m not sure people realize how big a problem it is.
I agree with you 100% that Facebook is the most dangerous of all the social media platforms (although I’m sure others aren’t much better.) Given your profession, I wonder if you have a deeper perspective than most. Do you think Facebook is ‘the most dangerous’ in the obvious way -- how it pushes questionable information in return for greater advertising revenue? Or because it affects people in psychological ways -- my layperson’s opinion? I see it both ways.
I believe social media in general is an enormous problem facing our country today, and I know many folks would disagree. It’s understandable to think other big problems making the news would be far more worrisome than what’s happening on Facebook. But what’s pushed on Facebook alters viewpoints, and viewpoints ultimately determine who we choose for leaders. With about 71% of USA’s population regularly using Facebook, the viewpoints which arise through immersion in Facebook are matters of great concern, as they can obviously swing elections.
Then there’s the other way I see it as dangerous.
In 2014, I got kicked off Facebook for losing my cool and telling a Republican lady she was an idiot. (Yep, just ‘idiot’ all by itself, with no F-bomb attached.) The lady was a ‘Birther’ and was hard-pushing the lie that Barack Obama wasn’t a US Citizen and was therefore ineligible to be POTUS. I had my fill of her and called her an idiot. Evidently, she went through all the proper channels to report me, which resulted in a three-day suspension. Although it felt horrible when I saw my account locked, It was the best thing to ever happen to me.
At first, I felt horribly ‘disconnected’ from my world, and I didn’t even know what to do when my phone was in my hands. I began to calm down though, and on the third day, my mood really started to change for the better. I was relaxed. I found myself not missing or caring about anything that was going on Facebook. I didn’t care what anyone said or what anyone thought of the last things I’d posted. I didn’t miss the fighting and the name-calling and it was so peaceful to not have my phone pinging all the time. I felt liberated. I decided to leave Facebook completely and I did not miss it.
We all know our politics took a major change in 2016. After much reflection, I returned to Facebook in 2018 after swearing I would never come back. I felt irresponsible by not being as politically engaged as I was in the Obama years, and I could tell from the news what was happening on social media platforms (especially Twitter.) I returned because I wanted to understand what was happening on the only platform I was familiar with. I’d heard it had grown so much worse after I’d left. I wanted to be part of the counter-message to all the lies and misinformation that was cutting our country in half, and so for the last three years I’ve done battle as-needed with MAGA, Anti-Vax and Anti-Science trolls. I don’t let the online bickering bother me now as I used to, but I’m still appalled at how conservative voters now act as a result of Donald Trump's term in office. It’s truly a discouraging platform. If we survive the next two elections with our democracy intact, I’ll leave Facebook again and I’ll never return. To me there’s almost nothing good about it.
Coming back was a good call in one important sense: I gained a more realistic picture of how people are. I used to believe in the inherent goodness of people but I now see how naïve I was. Facebook is SO toxic. Facebook doesn’t care about the well-being of its users, at least not if it means losing a single advertising dollar. The users can be horrible, but in some respects it’s the indifferent culture of Facebook which makes them that way. My guess is that a huge number of users wish they’d never signed-up in the first place, yet they can’t tear themselves away from it no matter how hard they try. I suspect Facebook is more addictive to some people than crack cocaine. I know I may never have left if I hadn’t been suspended for three days and given a chance to remember what life without Facebook was like. (‘FOMO’, or ‘Fear Of Missing Out’ is what kept me checking my phone all day long.)
I was also caught up in posting only things I thought my friends would ‘Like’. I now see that so many people carefully craft images of their lives to put on display to their ‘Friends’ on Facebook, and before they realize what’s happening, they start to live their lives for online approval… from people who couldn’t care less about them. Very few people ever worry about being courteous or even civil on Facebook. It often turns into a game to belittle newbies asking innocent questions. With no real accountability to worry about on Facebook, people are remorseless about saying the most hurtful things to other users. I know not everyone has these kinds of experiences. (My wife is a good example, coordinating her Project Linus chapters with help from a Facebook page.) So many others seem to lose parts of themselves in the experience though. It’s just a horrible place for so many people. There’s no reason why it should be so popular, except that Facebook is carefully designed to pull a person in then never let them go. I sometimes wonder how Mark Zuckerberg can sleep at night (but then I always remember: He’s a billionaire because of it.)
I went into Facebook initially because it seemed like it would be fun, and it was at first. After a while though, I suddenly realized I was spending huge amounts of my time glued to a screen, doing nothing but scrolling, liking, sharing and arguing. Along the way, I’d completely forgotten how nice it was to not know every aspect of someone’s life, revealed online for everyone to inspect, ‘Like’, judge or ridicule. I had to quit Facebook to see all this. I had to leave Facebook completely to understand how bad it was making me feel, as it was such a gradual descent that I never noticed what was happening. We were much happier with the privacy we once had. In our online world, we oldsters who knew it before have forgotten what it was like. Younger people, raised into the online world, have known nothing but.
Please forgive the long comment Mary! No matter how much I try, I’m just never able to keep it short when I start talking about Facebook... I really despise it that much. I’m as sincere as I am wordy about it, at least.
As a kid growing up in the 1970’s, I once worried we’d all perish in a nuclear holocaust. I can now see we don’t need missiles to destroy ourselves. All we need is misinformation and billions of people to believe it. That’s why I think social media is an enormous problem today.
Take Care and thanks for what you do. I tell my wife often how courageous you are for the stand you’ve taken. It’s deeply appreciated!
If I could delete my FB account I would but unfortunately I need it as a resource for my job.
I believe this is precisely the way artists can use their contacts with people around the world for good. They did the right thing and I hope more will remove their music too.
I applaud your stand and that of others rebelling against the poisonous disinformation Spotify allows from Rogan.
If nothing else, there is value in musicians, et al., drawing attention to the unbelievable amount of $ paid out by Spotify to certain individuals and how little they pay for musician’s songs. Certainly highlighting Rogan’s racist attitude and his misinformation campaign is also a plus.
FIRST, I applaud the artists that have removed their music from Spotify. Second, I admonish Spotify for continuing to support Rogan's vaccine/mandate falsehoods.
No amount of money is worth paying a podcaster to spread misinformation.
The mental trauma in of itself will be at the forefront for decades to come. This serial servitude to TFG our leaders money , power , the anti vaccine benefits no one . The erosion of civility across this country is smoldering. This is man made and it is our right to fight back , we will win . I am hopeful, there’s more of us who believe in democracy !
I stand with you Mary and Cap . To all the artist and podcasters thank you for speaking truth to power
I stand for all who uphold the “Good in Us”.
I absolutely support musicians and podcasters removing their content from Spotify because it demonstrates what values they hold. I'm so glad you and other folks have taken this step because it's the best way to show the world how you feel about the situation.
Important reminder that Rogan is an anti-LGBTQ and especially anti-trans bigot too. There was no valid reason for Spotify to give him $100 million knowing where he stood on many social issues.
I deleted my Spotify app (never had a premium subscription) to add to the chorus of others doing the same.
Thank you again for doing this.
You're very welcome and yes those listener numbers are alarming. Also, your Cap, Linden, Sebastian and Nemo (I want to see more of her) pictures have brought me so much joy. Thank you so very much for sharing them with us.
I agree with the many excellent points already made. I believe the removal of material is a stand worth taking, and it did make a dent and got Spotify's attention. They had a stock drop (they claim it was unrelated but not so sure about that), their website was overwhelmed from all the customer cancellations, they were forced to issue statements, and they established policies that they should've had in the first place. Will their stock recover? Probably, especially if more artists/podcasters don't continue to join, which will be unfortunate. But that doesn't make their proliferation of Joe Rogan ok. Corporate social responsibility will never really take root unless it is made to by others. And if now isn't the time to take a stand, especially against deadly misinformation, racism, and anti-democracy sentiment, then I don't know when it is.
Setting all of this aside, there's also just an issue of personal integrity and what choices people make and can live with in their own lives. While that is, of course, a subjective notion, it is still reassuring and refreshing to see what personal integrity means to those artists and podcasters who left.
I am absolutely in favor of artists removing their music from Spotify, and applaud those who have cancelled their subscriptions. Money talks!
I am grateful to the musicians and artists who are removing their works from Spotify. They are speaking up for truth and integrity, and fighting against hatred and misinformation.
I’ve always felt that any musician (or podcaster) with a large following is aware he or she has an unusual opportunity to make a strong statement. I respect those that remove their material in support of causes I deeply believe in because it attracts closer attention to those causes. In the case of Neil Young, Joni Mitchell and others leaving Spotify because of Joe Rogan’s racist and false content, it’s attracted much attention lately, and in my view, that’s wonderful.
However, let’s suppose Joe Rogan was removed from Spotify for spreading lies and misinformation, and it was Ted Nugent who was removing his music in protest. How would I react?
I’d smirk and say, “Don’t let the door hit you in the ass Ted.”
My feeling is that musicians and podcasters who remove their material in protest would earn respect and praise from those in agreement, but only derision from those who aren’t. It’s our duty to ourselves to reflect and decide which causes merit our support.
I do agree it’s a stand worth taking. I’d do it myself if I were on Spotify, in the only way I can – by writing an email (that nobody at Spotify would ever read) explaining why I’m no longer listening to their music. It might give me a warm feeling after I hit ‘send’, but it would only last for about a minute. End-users like me don’t make a heck of a lot of difference, even if our intentions are admirable. If a Neil Young removes his material, or a Joni Mitchel or a Mary Trump, it resonates. Many people start to take notice and dialogues begin. It makes the news. If the dialogues grow louder, things can change. It’s worth doing!
There may be better ways to make a point, but not every way is available to every person in the world. A person can only do what’s within their means to do. Even at the smallest level though, it’s nice to see people who sacrifice some part of themselves in favor of some greater good.
I don’t disagree at all with people trying to do something to make a difference… in this case, removing their content from a platform that values extreme profit over basic truth, when so much is at stake.
Thanks very much Mary!
Thanks for this, Mary. History has shown that protests by musicians is often effective. In this case, I believe it will be as well. That Spotify may use the revenue generated by the songs of Joni and Neil et al, to fund the insane paycheque of Rogan, may be the reason for the musicians’ decision, more so than his spreading of lies. Goodness knows musicians have it hard enough these days if they are hoping to earn a decent residual payment from these streaming services. Personally, I will give a shout out to Bandcamp who provides the musicians proper compensation to distribute the music. You know, like the good old days of buying an album or CD while knowing the musician will be duly compensated.
Good to know. Will add them to my list :).
The Trumpers would have you believe it’s a matter of free speech being infringed. It’s not. Spotify is a business and they can operate however they want as long as it’s not breaking any law. Just like Neil’s music is his business and so on. Since I worked for Apple several years I never felt the need to give Spotify any of my money. As a customer in a capitalistic country, that’s my right.
What I’m waiting to find out is how Fox entertainment is going to handle the Rudy Giuliani debacle with Masked Singer. Kudos to Robin Thicke and Ken Jong!!!
Your guess is as good as or better than mine! The show’s producers really screwed the pooch with that! I thought it was a stretch to have Sarah Palin on, but Rudy? Definitely tone deaf to the feelings of millions of viewers.
I do not think there is another way to demonstrate to Spotify how artists and podcasters feel about Joe Rogan and Covid misinformation than to remove their music and podcasts from Spotify, which I totally agree with. It would help if investors took a stand against the platform, too, but, for some reason, I do not think it will last long.
Absolutely! I have never been on Spotify. The platform should never support the misinformation that Joe Rohan adheres to.
As A Technician DJ engineer I've seen all my life the power of entertainment and celebrity artists have on The Overall Political Events that need addressing, Woodstock To The Concert For Bangladesh to Live Aid To Lolapalooza to Lilith Fair, What is really getting under my skin lately is because "Covid" restricts public performance and promotion we are losing fundraising opps to the very nature of what it means to stop spread of covid, These artists standing up to Spotify are heroic and patriotic, Joe Rogan Is An Ass-Wipe Publicized Period, Mary Your Dean Obedallah Interview was awesome, the two of you prompted the issues at hand together beautifully, I THINK Msnbc and CNN are both missing out, not grabbing your show for broadcast 12 to 1am, you use a few curses is why the show could logically place there, I described to Twitter that YOU COULD literally be the Antithesis to Tucker Carlson we all need, regardless of time slot, Your Loyal Fan John Pillin
Dean is so fantastic. When he had his old show on another SiriusXM channel (I've forgotten the name) I called in the day after the 2016 election so upset. I broke down and cried on his show. Ever since then we've stayed in touch and I've never stopped calling into his show. I'm so glad you had him on your podcast and I love being able to watch it on YouTube.
I think that it is the right thing to do! If a person or organization blatantly doesn't represent your values, you disassociate from this person or organization! Thank you for joining the musicians and artists getting off of Spotify! Cap, I cancelled my account too! Economic decisions can make a powerful impact! We vote with our ballots, our purchases, our apps, our feet!
It feels like you are a new friend! Or a "kick-ass" Little Sister!
Diana
I'm so glad you mentioned the blatant racism. I find that to be worse than misinformation about anything. I cancelled 3 premium Spotify accounts. I'm still fuming about Rogan's recent show where two privileged White men decide there's no such thing as Black people.
I mean, really? Where the fuck do they get off?
Clearly, Spotify is cool with it.
Hate speech shouldn't be covered or allowed. Anything that costs platforms money is fair game ( customer cancellations, artists and podcasters removing their work, lawsuits, etc) because that's the only thing they understand. And that is a sad commentary on our corporate culture. I'd like to see some artists set up a cooperative service platform. Protesting is ALWAYS a good idea.
BTW Eyes on Russian aggression NOW. The ground is frozen and Olympics seem to rev up Putin's aggression. He moved on Crimea during and after winter Olympics.
A stand worth taking as Cap and her Owner did! The issue here is that Spotify is paying Rogan with money from the musicians’ work. So, they have every right NOT to have their work used in this way.
I know what you mean! Willy our cat is my boss! 🐾🐈
Absolutely! I appreciate artist removing their work from a platform that disseminates deadly misinformation. It is cancel culture at its very finest. It’s not even a free speech issue, not when Spotify PAYS to have an individual spout harmful information.
We must take back the language, too. Instead of letting trumpsters annoy us by saying WE are canceling their culture, we must own it. Yes! We ARE canceling the evil they sprout. Yes, we ARE canceling the confederacy which lost the war. Yes, we ARE canceling trumpism which almost lost our democracy. Yes, we ARE canceling racism and misogyny.
1. A schlock jock is NOT worth 100 mill of anyone's dosh. 2. I love that musicians ARE walking away from a platform like Spotify. They're putting their beliefs and ethics out there in public and the consequences for them will be a whole army of new fans looking for their music on YouTube and enjoying the experience of quality music - not someone just talking in time to an electronic box. 3. I am amazed that Rogan is given air time anywhere with his particularly loathsome brand of racism. I've said it before and I'll say it again - in Australia he'd have been booted off air long ago for it. Here, when celebrities f*** up, they get the same as any man/woman in the street committing the same f*** up (Pardon my ****'s!) Take the recent case of No-Vax Jerkovic, for example...
I just can't see how anyone can actually listen to this bloke and say, 'Wow, he's really great, he's on the ball!" We just had the case here of Andrew O'Keefe - former lawyer, sometime actor and well-known television host - who is in a deep pile of s**t for several charges of domestic violence and assault on a woman. No-one's sticking up for him, that's a certainty. But people can stick up for Rogan? Makes me feel like I really am living in the Lucky Country, as the song says.
The appropriate course of action was for Spotify to adhere to the standards they claim to have established and end their relationship with Mr. Rogan. People removing their material from Spotify because Spotify did not take this course of action is commendable. They are upholding their own standards. However, take a moment to consider this. I have written a book, Remaking Democracy in America. People can purchase it on Amazon. Other people have written books on topics similar to mine that spout revolting opinions as egregious as what Mr. Rogan offers. People can purchase them on Amazon. Their books sell better. Should I remove my book from Amazon to protest them being allowed to use Amazon as a platform to sell books?
Why would a musician or artist continue to allow their performances to be used in service to bigotry and hatred? You don't want to be at that party.
I think all your questions are good ones but I honestly believe it sad we/you have to ask.
I wonder if what Neil Young started will lead to more ppl in the industry to pull out that will make a dent in the campaign for good.
The disinformation and liars club needs to be called out for what it is do I am all in with hope it will help.
I do not recognize the whole racist movement as being acceptable nor should it be encouraged or tolerated so whatever we can do or say with
‘oh hell no’ to it all works for me.
We are devolving regressing and moving into dangerous territory if we don’t take that stand firmly to remember we don’t back down with what’s right. Critical thinking and the push to those ideas to better humanity with the knowing we all do better when we all do better seems to have been lost over time.
Am a boomer and seeing what and how things are going into the dark side is very upsetting if not terrifying.
I mean WTAF?
We are better than the Jan 6 crowd that stormed our democracy and apparently all believe outright lies like covid is a hoax etc
It’s insane
Freedom of speech yes but not when it’s intent is to harm us all or the world we need to share and protect in peace with more love in the light of truth
Ffs
I don’t have all the answers but I know if we stick with truth facts science and stand up for what’s right we will do better together where we have strength in numbers 🤞🏻
Consumers and producers have a right to self-determination. I imagine a group of men, concerned about profits, who set the bar low for other men. As a woman I have spent my life encountering these systems of white male privilege that benefited men around me by expecting so little of them.
As consumers of a product, we have the right not to remain silent.
Whenever possible, it is good that people like Neil Young and many that followed, were able to take a stand against a profit making organization that has such a wide audience, to be put in their place for spreading lies and misinformation. I am grateful for those all brave ones that did what was right even it might cost them financially. Thank you to all.
I don't know if there is any better way to make the point, but it's more than making a point as it's the work that represents the musicians and their careers as they wish them to be. Then there are contracts that would likely have to be felt with.
I totally agree with musicians removing their content from Spotify. Or for that matter anyone else associated with them. When will we establish boundaries for this kind of shit. We are way late showing up to resist this type of racism and anything related to it.
The artists (and podcasters) have the right to disassociate their work product from a platform that does not mesh with their ideals. Spotify has the right to keep Joe Rogan. Let’s see how it plays out financially. I support those who left Spotify.
Absolutely! Anything that hits a company in their pocketbook is a good thing. Plus they're getting lots of negative publicity!!!
I agree with the musicians. It feels like we’re back in the 60’s where it felt we made a difference by taking stands together, led by the cultural leaders, especially the bands. It is a great way to gain the attention of the masses and generate grass roots action. Already so many people have abandoned, boycotted, Spotify. We need to be ready to do the same with other platforms when challenged to run the platform with integrity.
I love your questions and how they stimulate discussion. I also love, love, love the photos of Linden, Sebastian and Cap who radiate wisdom of what is really important in life. Thank you
Proud of you Cap!
Yes, I think removing their music from Spotify is the ethical thing to do. But I will also add that I believe companies, like iTunes, that allow the likes of Ben Shapiro, Dan Bongino, and Steve Bannon do so for one of two reasons, 1. they agree with the lies or 2. for sensationalism. I question the ethics of any media that would host the likes of conspiracy theorists, known liars, or who spew anti-American rhetoric. 2015/16 the media/press constantly gave Donald free advertising by constantly covering his every word. Take this one step further; I was watching Rachel Maddow a couple of nights ago and this ad for Trump, spewing lies about Biden, etc., obviously a radical agenda by the radicals for Trump. MSNBC has, I believe, an ethical obligation to their viewers and their hosts to not have that kind of advertising on their programs.
Congratulations on moving off of Spotify! I think we need more ethicists on all of these platforms. We can build them to do good and to be good but, we choose not to. By you and others demanding better we will get there…slowly.
Fortunately Neil Young has the rights over his own music and made a personal choice to remove it. Others don’t. Very unfortunate.
It’s always worth it to take a stand toward something you believe in.
My concern now is that we are drawing lines about what we are against. What are we for and we are the voices of what we are for.
Blocking, unsubscribing….I’ve done it.
I don’t want to hear the crazy at all. I work in psychiatry as a nurse- decades…I already have to listen to “altered mental status”
Currently trying to convince a paranoid patient who has an antivax Trumpian wife just to get vaccinated.
You’re podcast and books are a great start. Our voices need to be out there speaking truth and challenging lies. Slow and steady.
A detail I point out in regard to Neil Young and Joni Mitchell pulling their music from a platform that allows false information about vaccines to be spewed is that they each have a personal stake in the harm caused. They both suffered from childhood polio before the polio vaccine was available. Hearing lies about vaccines for another deadly disease hits closer to home for them. Neil Young has started several charities including Farm Aid with Willie Nelson. Reading about how much he has given to the world is so impressive. The racist liar Spotify pays and keeps employed shows where their values lie. No need for them.